Cream of the Crop 1/Cream of the Crop 1.iso/RELIGION/OB_92.ARJ/05-03-92

Text File | 1992-05-03 | 319KB | 6,682 lines

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 00:07:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject       How?

 ND>      No Terry, I am not saying that there is a fouth part to the
 ND> Godhead. There
 ND> is still God, Jesus Christ's Father (in my belief system
 ND> anyway), Jesus Christ

 I was only picking on you.

 ND> (His father's only begotten), and the Holy Ghost. I do not know
 ND> of any such fourth party. Also I do not believe in any kind of
 ND> special sinless children because I believe all children to be
 ND> sinless until the come to the age to make their own decisions

 Do you ever wonder why that 25 + billion people have been born and only
 one of them grew up to become perfect?  And at a time it was predicted
 Christ would be born?  I simply see it as just toooo much of a
 coincidence that if the rest of humanity was born sinless like Jesus
 that he would be the only one to make the grade.  Do you follow my
 rational?

 ND> ourselves we will never progress. You see Terry, the LDS church
 ND> does not believe
 ND> in any kind of original sin that all are born with. For us,
 ND> baptism is for the remission of our own sins, not of Adam's.
 ...
 ND> We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not
 ND> for Adam's transgression.

 Well, there is certainly nothing wrong with emphasizing personal
 accountability, but we seem to have been born into a situation that
 requires a messiah to get us out of.    If baptism were enough to
 liberate man from sin then one's children should not need salvation.

 ND> Father in Heaven created everything through Jesus Christ. Jesus
 ND> Christ also shows that he is the God of the Old Testament when
 ND> he says "Before Abraham was, I AM." A loose translatio
 ND> of Jehovah or YHVH is I AM, or I AM THE ONE WHO IS.
 ND>
 ND> What do you think?

 I think I had the ideal for a son like that 7'6" guy that you guys have
 out in the field is South America or somewhere... that's going to be a
 great pro basket ball player.   If I one of my sons do grow up to be
 even a greater ball player then he can say to that young man.... before
 your were born, I existed.  That is because he existed as an ideal in
 his father's heart before he came into the world.  God began the
 creation of the world with the ideal of a true man clearly in mind. He
 then did the necessary creating to make that ideal a reality.  Adam let
 Him down so God worked for several thousand years and prepared the
 foundation to try again.  Jesus was born as the second Adam and he
 attained individual perfection but was murdered before he could attain
 family perfection.  So the messiah must come again.  The third Adam will
 be sent to fulfill perfection on the family level.  Every religion is
 waiting on the return of someone. The Jewish people are waiting on this
 man, but they call him the first coming, christians call him the second
 coming. Buddhist call him the return of Buddha. Islam are waiting on the
 Imam... etc...  even conscious people are waiting on Prince Charming.
 This person will be the third Adam.  I believe you know who I think he
 is.  Wouldn't it be amazing if he were actually born during our life on
 earth and we had a chance to meet and work with him?  It is definitely
 worth checking out.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 00:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    SIN

 RH> Terry
 RH>
 RH> Don't you know not following the Rules of those over you is the
 RH> right ting to do?
 RH> Not doing what is right is sin?
 RH>
 RH> The rule in this echos is no handle
 RH>
 RH> Go and sin no more.

 Be cool... obliviously I run the best BBS in the country.  Some kind of
 software failure along the way resulted in this error.  If you think I
 would enter a message under the name sysop, you first have to figure out
 how I got on a bbs with such a name, then you would also have to wonder
 how I would think you would overlook my tagline... etc etc.  I really
 hope your were not for real.  Please tell me you were joking.   If you
 really want to play moderator and jump me for violating some rules, just
 check my spelling and grammar.  Ok.  That's it for now... go jump on
 Lord Loki

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 00:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bob Vonmoss @ 970/1
Subject    To be Bl(o)unt

 BV> We all know well that Mr. Blount carries on and on without
 BV> sense. He has told us that Jesus is a liar and to throw out our
 BV> Bibles, yet he is trying to teach us about Christ.

 Are you shell shocked?  Why are you running all over the conference with
 such messages?  Don't you have confidence to talk to me directly?  You
 are looking like a 15 year old still hiding behind his mother's coat
 tail.  Haven't you outgrown that yet?

 BV> Some of you may have been wondering what the real purpose of
 BV> this is. Deuteronomy 13:3b,4  "The LORD your God is testing you
 BV> to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with
 BV> all your soul.  It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him
 BV> you must revere.  Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and
 BV> hold fast to him."

 I have to confess that keeping God's commandments is not a bad idea.
 That is exactly why I have written over 1 meg of messages and read this
 conference daily for over 2 1/2 years.

 BV> All the people who don't love God, don't love the word of God,
 BV> and persecute the true church maligning the truth can go over to
 BV> that side and flunk the test.

 Relax, no one is going to flunk any test because they listen to Rev.
 Moon's teachings.  You are showing a serious lack of confidence in your
 own faith.

 BV> May God have mercy on Terry for he does not know what he is
 BV> doing. Let's pray for TB that he may turn to the living God who
 BV> rose Jesus from the dead.

 Pray that I can share what I know with you in a way you can receive it.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 00:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    WHAT MUST WE DO?

 SH>   Gee, Terry, first you say that I haven't done my homework, and
 SH> then   expect me to believe that Paul wrote John's epistles.  I
 SH> am not   saying that I know everything, but I do know enough
 SH> that when someone   says something this ludicrous, that THEY

 After writing one meg of messages, you finally find one tiny error that
 I quickly admitted you were correct about.  Gee, why does that make me
 feel so good?  Do you expect God to quiz everyone on the authors of the
 Bible?   Hey, better learn those names in Hebrew, you can never be sure
 what language God may require those answerers to be given in.  he he he

 SH> need to do their homework.   Homework involves study, and
 SH> thinking.  You are allowing Moon to do   your studying and
 SH> thinking for you.

 Sure, Rev. Moon is sitting right here beside me telling me what to type.
 Maybe he should learn read and write and type in English and let me go
 to bed. I don't care if he enters messages under my name.  I haven't
 seen him in over 10 years so I really need to read a few of his messages
 and find out what he IS thinking.

 SH> All in all, that is cheating in   any school,
 SH> and will give you the approproiate "F" in both the   homework
 SH> assignment, and the actual test.

 Who wants to think like Satan anyway?  I rather get a "D" on God's test
 than an "A+" because I learned to think like Satan.  Have you ever
 considered trying to think Christ-like?   It may be quite an experience.
 Who knows you may be out on the corner selling peanuts and flowers...
 I'm not sure I would buy any because I have my own church ...you know.

 SH>   That's the bad news.  The good news is that there is still
 SH> time to   run - not walk, but run - away from this particular
 SH> anti-christ.

 Run to where?  Show me where the true love of God can be experienced
 more deeply than in the Unification Church and I'll bring about a
 million people AND Rev. Moon immediately.  You don't know much about
 Rev. Moon or his followers.  We are junkies for the love of God.  And
 Rev. Moon has the worse habit of all.  That man will do anything to
 experience the true love of God.  Where do you think the true love can
 be experienced?  In a modern church with plush carpets, comfortable
 seats and ushers to take you there while organs play music in the
 background?   Do you think that is where the love of God can be
 experienced to the greatest degree?  Is that where Jesus hung out?

 I don't know who is thinking for you, but it looks like you are past due
 for your 50,000 mile inspection.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 08:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Greg Hansen
Subject     Cultists

 GH> According to the Cult Information Service at the University of
 GH> Minnesota:
 GH>   Any group which uses methods of thought reform to obtain
 GH>   and retain members is a CULT.  This has NOTHING to do with
 GH>   the belief system--in fact, many cults are not religious
 GH>   at all!

 This obviously is a very silly organization.  They didn't even bother to
 read the Bible and find out that new thinking (thought reform) is the
 result of following Christ.

 1CO 13:10   But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is
 in part shall be done away. 1CO 13:11   When I was a child, I spake as a
 child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became
 a man, I put away childish things.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 If fallen man did not need thought reform, he wouldn't need the messiah
 either...  but don't think about that you could fall into their category
 of a cultist.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 13:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus & Family

 WC>     The baby leaped in Her (Elizabeth's) womb when Mary greeted
 WC> her. Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant when Mary came to visit
 WC> her. Now you explain in detail how Mary greeting Elizabeth and
 WC> the unborn baby in Elizabeth moving means that Mary was pregnant
 WC> with Zacharias' child? And in doing so please do not redefine
 WC> the words of the English lan- guage.

 All I can tell you are the facts.  Fact number 1.  Zacharias was an
 elderly man and there was some doubt that he could still father a child,
 but we read in Luke 1:20 that God did not appreciate his lack of faith
 and even though he was skeptical, nevertheless he did father John the
 Baptist. Fact number 2 6 months after John was conceived a young woman
 who was a cousin to his wife had a revelation that she was going to be
 the mother of the Lord. Upon having this revelation, she went with
 haste to the house of Zacharias.  Fact number 3  she greeted Zach's
 wife... that means the husband of Elizabeth met with her for the purpose
 of procreating the son of God.  Fact number 4  Elizabeth did not know
 that Mary, her cousin, had submitted herself to the aging priest and
 heard about it later.   ...then John the Baptist, while in the 6 month
 of gestation leaped, moved or whatever.  The point is that John was
 conceived and born with the mission to make straight the way of Lord.
 And with the Lord on the way, with John 6 month's ahead of him, their
 was great hope and excitement in heaven.

 WC>     "I have called you out of darkness and I have no intention
 WC> that you go back again. Walk in this light which I have given
 WC> you. Truth--hold on to it as though your very life depends upon
 WC> it. For it does."

 Walter, you just don't know the times you are living in.  If you did you
 would be the number 1 Moonie.  Some day you are going to suffer great
 anguish for letting me steal the blessing you passed over.  You should
 have been a builder of the kingdom of God on earth, but you have
 rejected the stone.

 MAT 21:42   Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures,
 The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of
 the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 13:53:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiah

 WC>     No, he does not. If the Rev. Moon had the power and
 WC> authority AND the love of God then he would have compassion on
 WC> the sick and afflict- ed and heal them just like Jesus did.

 Are you saying that Jesus is dead and gone, or helpless to heal anyone?
 What would you say if someone asked you why your Jesus isn't using his
 power to cure the sick and afflicted?

 WC> TB> He teaches us that sexual promiscuity is the root and cause
 WC> of TB> the fall of man
 WC>
 WC>     Yes, that is what he teaches but is extra-biblical. The
 WC> bible does NOT teach that the fall of man was sexual promiscuity
 WC> but rather disobedience because Eve wanted to be like God.

 And you won't say what action of disobedience they committed when they
 sinned.  How can you ever hope to be responsible if you don't understand
 the problem?

 WC>     Jesus HAS NOT returned to earth. Anyone saying otherwise is
 WC> simply supporting a false messiah. The Scripture clearly tell us
 WC> exactly how Jesus will return and what He will do when He does
 WC> return. None of the things which He is to do have occurred.
 WC> Ergo, Jesus has not returned.

 The scripture clearly shows us that the return of Elijah took place
 through the birth of John the Baptist. One man disappeared and his
 return was fulfilled by another man with the same mission.  So you are
 correct, the Bible clearly teaches us how the Messiah will return.

 WC> Jesus already returned to the earth. He may do so before
 WC> tomorrow but as of now He has not returned.

 You don't know the time you are living in.  You are clearly on the wrong
 side of the fence. You are supporting a prophecy alright:

 LUK 17:25   But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
 this generation.

 Your generation is the one that Jesus said would reject the second
 coming of christ and cause him to suffer many things.  I can assure you
 that this nothing for you to be proud of.  Failing to recognize the
 Messiah will bring you more agony than you can imagine.  You better find
 a way to break through in prayer and get some answers from God before it
 is too late.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 14:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject     Moon Is A fake Chrisr

 RH> Moon IS A FAKE!!!

 Do I hear the ancient voice of someone echoing..."if you are the Christ
 get yourself down from the cross.."  ?

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 14:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Prophecy

 WC>     Your doctrine that God must be a human like the rest of us
 WC> is not new to the Rev Moon. New Age theology is not really new.
 WC> It has been around for several millennium. It was not of God
 WC> then nor is if of God now.

 It is not my doctrine that God must be a human like anyone.  Not even
 like Jesus or Rev. Moon.  God's characteristics include both a masculine
 and feminine nature. Jesus' nature was masculine, so at best Jesus could
 be only half God.  The only way God can be fully perceived is in a
 marriage, where man and woman are united as parents.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 14:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Qualification

 WC>
 WC>     There is one major difference. I am speaking in the Holy
 WC> Ghost. They were speaking in the flesh.

 Oh, you mean that same Holy Ghost that guided you to read my messages
 and learn the truth about the second coming of Christ.... that Holy
 Ghost?

 WC>     When a person is working for God they will manifest the
 WC> fruit of the spirit. One of them is love. The Rev. Moon has yet
 WC> to demonstrate that he has love.

 How would you know.  That kind of mindless statement would be just like
 me saying that your mother does not love you.  Have you even once met
 him or have you ever attended a seminar or anything that his followers
 sponsored.  How can you even make a guess about the love of Rev. Moon
 when you have not made any attempt to find out first hand?

 WC> afflicted. The Rev. Moon has yet to demonstrate love and
 WC> compassion for the sick and afflicted as did Jesus. Anyone who
 WC> is truly fulfilling the mission of Jesus would absolutely do
 WC> those things because Jesus did them.

 I hear that Oral Roberts is still working miracles.  Does that make him
 your Messiah?  Exactly my point.  If Rev. Moon did cure a bunch of folks
 you would look for another excuse to keep on doing what ever you are
 doing.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 14:19:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Qualification

 PM> WC>     Sorry to pop your balloon but when Rev. Moon dies he
 PM> will WC> remain in his grave until Judgment day.
 PM> .
 PM>     I'll buy that.        phil.phm

 LUK 7:49    And they that sat at meat with him began to say within
 themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 14:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE BE H

 SH> TB> YES !  I'm not going to suppose I can get to heaven through
 SH> God's grace TB> alone.
 SH>
 SH>    Then you simply contradict God's word: Gal 3:1

 SH>   If you believe that the scriptures lie, and that Christ lies,
 SH> then   simply there is no light in you.

 Don't worry I don't believe that.  What I do believe is that you are
 confused and you have clearly overlooked Paul's warning to people like
 yourself who thought God's grace alone would save you..

 ROM 6:15    What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law,
 but under grace? God forbid.


 SH> TB> If God's grace was sufficient to save anyone we would have
 SH> NO TB> need for repentance, prayer, bibles, or religion.
 SH>
 SH>   What we have a need for is Jesus Christ.  You want to deny
 SH> that need   and try and get to heaven through works, and not his
 SH> cleansing blood.

 First, I don't deny the fact that we need a Savior.  Second, I have
 never said that we could get to heaven through works alone.  Third, I
 have tried about 5 times to get you to see that God's grace is not
 something we should be worried about.  What we should be doing is
 focusing out attention on OUR responsibility and not on God's
 responsibility.  What do you think your responsibility is?  I really
 don't see any evidence that you think or believe you have any
 responsibility.  Just kick back and wait on Jesus to fix things is
 obviously the philosophy of the devil.

 SH> TB> What you don't
 SH> TB> understand is the concept of restoration through INDEMNITY.
 SH>
 SH>   Oh, I understand it - it is clearly unscriptural.  Being
 SH>   unscriptural, it is not of God.

 What does 'restoration through indemnity' mean?  In order for something
 to be restored to a position or state which it has lost, certain
 conditions must be met.  To meet these conditions is to indemnify the
 loss of the original--and thus, to restore through indemnity.

 Man lost his original state and position because of the Fall.  In order
 for him to restore that original position and state, he must meet
 certain conditions.  Since meeting these conditions indemnifies the
 loss, returning to the original state by meeting the required conditions
 is called restoration through indemnity.  The conditions that need to be
 met for this process of restoration through indemnity are called
 indemnity conditions. The dispensation to restore fallen man's Original
 Nature through fulfilling indemnity conditions is called the
 Dispensation for Restoration through Indemnity.

 Next, we need to understand the different kinds of indemnity conditions.
 The first kind is the indemnity condition of an equal amount, such as
 that found in Exodus 21:23-25: "'If any harm follows, then you shall
 give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot
 for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.'"  This
 means that the original state is restored by paying indemnity of a value
 that is identical to the loss or damage.

 The second kind of indemnity condition is the indemnity condition of a
 lesser amount.  In this case, the original state is restored by paying
 indemnity of a value that is less than that which was originally lost.
 For example, we receive the great benefit of Jesus' resurrection from
 the dead by meeting the very small indemnity condition of 'having faith
 in redemption through the cross'.  Other examples of indemnity
 conditions of a lesser amount are baptism and holy communion.  Through
 baptism we meet the condition of having to be cleansed of sin, and in
 holy communion we meet the condition of having to be one in spirit and
 body with Christ.

 The third kind of indemnity condition is the indemnity condition of a
 greater amount.  When a person fails to fulfill his responsibility to
 meet an indemnity condition of a lesser amount, then he must restore the
 original state by meeting an indemnity condition of a greater amount.
 For example, when the Israelite's forty days of spying in Canaan (at the
 time of Moses) failed to meet with God's approval, the duration of the
 indemnity condition was increased to one year for each of the original
 days.  Instead of suffering for forty days in the wilderness, they had
 to suffer for forty years (Num 14:34).

 Next, what is the method involved in meeting an indemnity condition? An
 indemnity condition is the condition that must be met in order for
 something to be restored to its original position or state.  An
 indemnity condition achieves this by being the reversal of the process
 which led to the loss of the original position or state.  Because the
 first man and woman failed to fulfill their responsibility  and fell
 away from God, their descendants have been required to fulfill the
 indemnity conditions required in the Way of Restoration.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 14:32:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE BE H

 SH> TB> You must
 SH> TB> purify yourself before you can dwell in heaven.
 SH>
 SH>   We cannot cleanse ourselves Terry.  We do not hold the means
 SH>   necessary to do that.  God has laid down the price for
 SH> redemption -   and that is the cleansing blood of his son.

 PSA 24:3    Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall
 stand in his holy place? PSA 24:4    He that hath clean hands, and a
 pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn
 deceitfully. PSA 24:5    He shall receive the blessing from the LORD,
 and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

 REV 22:14   Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may
 have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into
 the city.

 SH> TB> If you go as you are then you will take hell with you.
 SH>
 SH>   How so??  I believe that Christ died for me, and has cleansed
 SH> me from   my sins.  Because I love him, I keep his commandments,
 SH> and those   commandments are counted unto righteousness not
 SH> because of the   action, but because of the Christ's cleansing
 SH> and regeneration of my  heart.

 So are you purified?  Are you living a totally sacrificial life?  Have
 you matured to the point that you no longer need Christ?  How then can
 you think you can take heaven with you where ever you go?

 SH>   That is what God commands and has said in His word.

 So look at you.  Now you are preaching salvation through works.  I
 thought you condemned any human action/participation.  There is more
 hope in you than I first perceived !

 SH>   Yep.  That is true.  And trying to get to heaven by "good
 SH> deeds"   alone is that type of good intent.  I am not on that
 SH> road.  But Moon   is leading you down that very path.

 FYI, Rev. Moon teaches that there is no way for fallen man to get back
 to God without the Messiah.

 SH>     I understand that you said that Christ is a liar.  We are
 SH> not     talking about a fallable man such as the example of
 SH> Peter.  We are     talking about Gid incarnate.  You said that
 SH> he lied to Moon in a     vision.  If he lied, then he is a liar.

 First, I said denied.  So if you want to jump on Jesus for denying
 something then you need look no farther than the scripture:

  And Jesus saith unto him, See thou TELL NO MAN; but go thy way, shew
  thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a
  testimony unto them. Then charged he his disciples that they should
  TELL NO MAN that he was Jesus the Christ. And as they came down from
  the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man,
  until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. And he charged them
  that they should TELL NO MAN: but the more he charged them, so much the
  more a great deal they published [it]; And he charged them that they
  should TELL NO MAN of him. And as they came down from the mountain, he
  charged them that they should TELL NO MAN what things they had seen,
  till the Son of man were risen from the dead. And he charged him to
  TELL NO MAN: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy
  cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them. And
  her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell
  no man what was done. And he straitly charged them, and commanded
  [them] to TELL NO MAN that thing; So the chief captain [then] let the
  young man depart, and charged [him, See thou] TELL NO MAN that thou
  hast shewed these things to you.

 SH>     I will ask you flat out again:
 SH>
 SH>        By saying that Christ did not tell Moon the truth, does
 SH> that not make Jesus a liar??  If not, why not?

 My answer is the same one you would give if someone asked you if Jesus
 was lying when he said:

 MAT 16:28   Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which
 shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his
 kingdom.

 MAT 10:23  ..for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the
             cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 SH>   Yeah, it must be tough to try and convince somebody who knows
 SH> the   truth, has the truth in front of them in God's word, and
 SH> believes   that truth, that what they hold, what they believe,
 SH> and what is   clearly written in front of them is not the truth.

 You must be joking.  If I were out to trick someone, why would I be
 wasting my time trying to teach such a wise man as you?  You would like
 me to think I have been caught trying to sell drugs to an undercover
 cop.  That concept is simply nonsense.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 14:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Rightly Dividing

 WC> TB> Are you saying that grace alone will save you?

 WC>     Obviously you have yet to really study the Scripture beyond
 WC> just a surface examination in search of passages to support an
 WC> extra- biblical position.

 No, what is obvious is that you did not answer may question?  And
 speaking of studying Scripture... here is one for you to lament upon:

 ROM 6:15    What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law,
 but under grace? God forbid.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 14:54:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Sin                   1/

 WC> TB> They persecuted him for what they though to be a violation
 WC> of the TB> laws of Moses.

 WC>     No, Terry. They knew the Law of Moses. They did not get
 WC> upset because He violated the Law of Moses. They had added many
 WC> man-made laws to the body of the Law. They knew the difference
 WC> but insisted upon equating both set of ordinances.

 And so have you....

 WC> TB> Believe me it is just as lethal for one's spiritual health
 WC> to TB> persecute and betray the second coming of Christ as it
 WC> was for TB> those who betrayed the first coming.
 WC>
 WC>     I certainly agree with you there, Terry. Those that resist
 WC> the Second Coming will all be destroyed for their actions by
 WC> Jesus and His heavenly army.

 If you really believe this you would stop reading an typing right now
 and pray until you broke through and got an answer from God about Rev.
 Moon.

 WC>     However, you have not addressed the question of how a person
 WC> who was perfect and told no lie would tell two lies. No matter
 WC> how you slice the cake you are telling us that Jesus lied on two
 WC> occasions. Such is a direct contradiction of Scripture which
 WC> says that He knew no sin. A lie is absolutely a sin. Jesus NEVER
 WC> lied past present or future.

 What do you call it when Jesus said that someone people would not die
 before the second coming of Christ? What do you call it when Jesus said
 that the people would not have gone through all the towns of Israel
 before the second coming of Christ?  Walter, you only see what you want
 to see.  You are living in a fantasy world.

 WC>     No, Terry, I gloss over nothing. I KNOW what the Scripture
 WC> say on the subject. There was no sexual misconduct as you would
 WC> have us believe. Neither can you produce any passage of
 WC> Scripture which says that there was such sexual misconduct. The
 WC> concept is extra-biblical. It did not come from God.

 Yes it did, and even other people who participate in this conference
 have told you that they agreed with you about Rev. Moon, but pointed out
 the sexual implications of the fall were clearly written in the Bible.

 WC>     And I do know and understand why I can get to heaven. It is
 WC> because Jesus went to the cross and paid the price which I could
 WC> not pay. It is His blood alone that makes it possible and
 WC> without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

 That was necessary when the people failed to find faith in Jesus, but
 that alone does not save you.  There will be many people going to a
 lowly place in the spiritual world, and Jesus death on the cross was
 for them too.  The obviously failed somewhere.  It was not the results
 of Jesus' failure that resulted in their loss of salvation.  You must
 agree that Jesus' blood shed alone was not sufficient to save someone.
 Or, you must hold the belief that all will be saved no matter what they
 do.

 WC> TB> Now you know why the sun will darken and the moon will not
 WC> give TB> its light when the light of the truth brought about by
 WC> the resur- TB> rection of Jesus shines.

 WC>     Go ahead. Make our day. Cite Scripture which tells us that
 WC> the passages you are referring to here are allegory and not
 WC> literal.

  And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said,
  Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon
  and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told [it] to his
  father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto
  him, What [is] this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy
  mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to
  the earth?

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 15:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Sin                   2/

 WC>     Ridiculous!! The Old Testament is as valid as the New. They
 WC> do not contradict each other. Rather they compliment each other.

 So why don't people of the Jewish faith accept the Net Testament as an
 addition to their Bible?  Someone obviously sees a difference even if
 you don't.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 15:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Jim Tull
Subject    Sin                   2/

 JT> Terry, I'm surprised to hear from you that you don't believe
 JT> that our mortal
 JT> bodies will become immortal at Christ's 2nd coming!

 Just hang around and keep reading my messages and I assure you that you
 will have even greater surprises ahead of you.

 JT> This is a very UNBIBLICAL
 JT> concept, my friend! When Jesus comes, the righteous dead will be
 JT> resurrected, and the living saints will them be clothed in immor-
 JT> tality.

 Humm, didn't a resurrection take place right after Jesus was
 resurrected?

 MAT 27:53   And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
 into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 So where are these resurrected folks today?  What happened to their
 immortal bodies that they were given at their resurrection?

 JT> According to the Bible, whoever believes otherwise is sadly
 JT> mistaken.

 Are you SURE about that?  I think you meant to say that according to
 YOUR interpretation of the Bible  bla bla bla....

 JT> I suggest you review the Biblical account of what will
 JT> occur at that time. It is a very exciting time to look forward
 JT> to. Do you really think God would have us live in pain (which
 JT> many of His people do, in case you didn't notice) forever? I
 JT> think not!

 I'm not in any pain.  Actually I feel very good.  Are  you hurting
 somewhere?  After working in a hospital two years, I discovered that
 people were in pain more often because they were unhappy than as a
 result of a real biological malfunction.  If one perfect man could heal
 so many people, what do you think that 4 or 5 billion perfect people
 could do?

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 15:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Spirit

 WC> WC>     And this is exactly what happens. It will continue to
 WC> happen WC> until the resurrection. Jesus is the first to be
 WC> resurrected. WC> The Bible is exactly correct. When the body is
 WC> put in the grave WC> it decays. When the resurrection occurs it
 WC> will come out of the WC> grave exactly as did Jesus come forth
 WC> from the grave.
 WC> TB> How long have you had this science fiction passion?
 WC>
 WC>     Since I read it in the word of God. Since God said it then
 WC> it is true. Are you telling us that God lied to us in the Bible?

 No, I'm just finding it most amusing that you think everyone will be
 laid in a nice grave and buried so that their decomposed parts are
 laying around, reedily available for re-possession.  Many believers died
 in totally different situations.  Some were probably even eaten by fish,
 which could have been eaten by another believe.  Your fictional belief,
 if implemented, would have serious deficiencies when two or more
 believers were found to have shared the same parts.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 15:31:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    WHAT MUST WE DO?

 SH> TB> between man and God is the result of man's failure, not
 SH> God's failure to
 SH>
 SH> TB> reach out to man.  Man can seek God. Man can reach out and
 SH> make a TB> relationship with God....
 SH>
 SH>   So you are saying that man alone can bridge the gap??  God has
 SH>   reached out to everyone Terry, I have quoted that scripture to
 SH> you   before.  You want to ignore it, just like you want to
 SH> ignore God.

 I find it hard to believe that you can be so forgetful.  Time after
 time I have told you that God has reached out, God has fulfilled His
 responsibilities.  If salvation were up to God alone then everyone would
 be automatically saved.  There would be no need for prayer, bibles,
 religions etc.

 SH>   Terry, unless we are free of the stain of sin through the
 SH> blood of   Christ, NOTHING that we do will bring us closer to
 SH> God.

 There was no such thing as the "blood of Christ" for several thousand
 years before Christ came into the world.  But we have the Old Testament
 that clearly taught fallen man a process that he could follow to come
 closer to God.

 SH>   Terry, God's grace is out there and available.  Period.  Do
 SH> not   confuse grase and justification with works for salvation.
 SH> They are   not the same.

 Whewwwwww,  finally my message is getting through to you.  I better stop
 reading your message before I get disappointed again.

 SH> TB> You are sadly mistaken.  I never have dismissed the
 SH> sacrifice and effort
 SH> TB> of God.
 SH>
 SH>   This is contradicted by your devotion to Moon.

 You have no idea what Rev. Moon stands for or what he preaches and
 believes.  Your comment was only a cheap pop shot.  I should have
 stopped reading your message back there when you were showing signs of
 improvement.

 SH>   My responsibility is to follow God's laws.  That is the
 SH> covenant that   God has made.  However, just following the laws
 SH> isn't enough.

 let me finish your sentence...  "just as following the laws isn't
 enough", God's grace isn't enough.  Salvation requires the cooperation
 between Man and God.    Now you got the answer.  Don't forget it. I may
 give you a quiz next week.

 SH> TB> So now you think that witnessing is a waste of time?
 SH>
 SH>   No.   But your "god" is not God.  Your messiah is not the true
 SH>   messiah.  Your interpretation of scriptures is not accurate.

 Some day you will know quite differently.

 SH>    Sometimes I wonder why I do type messages to you Terry.  Your
 SH> heart    is so hardened against God that it is sad.  You hold
 SH> onto the false    teachings of Moon like a man clinging to a
 SH> greased rope.

 How many times do you suppose the followers of Jesus Christ were told
 the same thing?

 SH>    God contradicts Moon's teachings and thoughts.  You can
 SH> choose to    stick woth Moon.  As for me and my house, we will
 SH> serve the Lord.

 I truly believe  you want to serve the Lord, but unfortunately you don't
 know the time of your visitation.  You don't think prayer is a good
 idea. You don't talk to God about these issues and lessons I have been
 teaching you.  How can God guide you when you don't ask?

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 15:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gerard Trigo
Subject    Why

 GT> BTW, what do you think of the release of information that the
 GT> structure of the universe, as detected by the COLBI satelite
 GT> matches the predictions of the universe structure predicted
 GT> by the big bang theory and elucidated back in the 1950's by,
 GT> [mind going blank]. I'll have to look up the scientist's
 GT> name, I remember it was a Russian scientist. 8-)

 I've been very busy and only heard a few sketchy remarks about this.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 21:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject     Conclusion of the Ma Mat

 ND>     Terry, you do not believe that Daniel 7 was a vision of the
 ND> second coming?
      There are some people who insist that Daniel 7:3 is a prophecy of
 what is going to happen at the Second Coming.  However, from the
 following passages, we can see that the Old Testament Age was to end
 with the coming of Jesus:  "'For all the prophets and the law prophesied
 until John...'" (Mt 11:13) and "For Christ is the end of the law, that
 every one who has faith may be justified" (Rom 10:4).  The situation was
 such that no one ever imagined a second coming of the Messiah until
 Jesus himself, toward the end of his ministry, said that the Lord would
 come again.  as a result, no Israelite at the time of Jesus would have
 thought that the prophecy of Daniel 7:13 was concerned with second
 coming.  They would have believed it applied to the coming of the
 Messiah, and they would have acted as though it did.  (In other words,
 they would have expected the Messiah to arrive on the clouds.)
      Then, why, in sending the one Messiah, Jesus, did God give this
 prophecy of the Messiah's coming in the flesh?  Jesus said, "'No one has
 ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man'"
 (Jn 3:13), indicating that he came from heaven.  Yet, as we well know,
 Jesus was born on earth from his mother, Mary.  Why then did he say he
 came from heaven?
      The word 'heaven' is frequently used in the Bible.  It is
 repeatedly used as a metaphor to connote great value, sacredness, or
 goodness. Thus, we can interpret what Jesus said to mean 'I was born
 like all of you, but I am very different in the motive and origin of my
 birth; I am born of God'.  With this understanding of the word 'heaven',
 the prophecy that Jesus is coming on the clouds is not incorrect.
 However, it is a mistake to interpret it literally.
      In a similar way, John the Baptist, who was born in the family of
 Zachariah according to God's special dispensation, was not merely born
 of this earth, but had a great mission (Lk 1:15-17, 76).  Regardless of
 the form of his birth, God was the direct cause, and thus John had "come
 down from heaven" representing Elijah, and had the same mission of
 Elijah.

    The Second Coming of Christ Takes Place through his Birth on Earth

      From what is shown in the examples of Elijah's second coming and
 Jesus' coming, both of which were the direct work of God, one cannot
 help but give serious thought to the prophecies for the Second Coming.
      In summary, the New Testament not only contains prophecies that say
 Christ will come as a judge amidst glory on a cloud from heaven, but
 also some that say he will come again just as he did the first time,
 quite contrary to the other type of prophecy of his coming on the
 clouds.
      We read in Luke 17:24,25 that Jesus, anticipating what was going to
 happen at the Second Coming, said," '...so will the Son of man be in his
 day.  But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this
 generation.'"  If the Lord should come again amidst power and glory,
 with the trumpet call of the archangel, who would dare deny and
 persecute him?  Would you persecute him?
      Today, many faithful Christians and churches are looking up to the
 sky, waiting for the Lord to come on the clouds.  If he were to come on
 the clouds, there would be no reason for him to be persecuted. However,
 if he does not come on a literal cloud, and instead comes in the flesh,
 as at the First Coming, then it becomes apparent why Jesus said he would
 first suffer before finally being recognized (Lk 17:24,25).
      Revelation 12:5 says," ...she brought forth a male child, one who
 is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught
 up to God and to his throne."  The man who will rule the world with a
 rod of iron is the coming Lord.  In this verse, it says that he will be
 born of a woman.  When the Pharisees wanted to know the time of the
 Second Coming, they asked Jesus when the Kingdom of God was coming, and
 he answered,"...'The Kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be
 observed...'" (Lk 17:20).  Everyone can gaze up at heaven, but Jesus
 said that the coming of God's Kingdom, in other words, the Second Coming
 will not be visible.  Why is that so?  It is because the Messiah does
 not come on a literal cloud.  In Luke 18:8, Jesus said, " 'I tell you,
 he will vindicate them speedily.  Nevertheless, when the Son of man
 comes, will he find faith on earth?' "Jesus was prophesying that he
 would not find faith on earth at his second coming.  This means that
 when he comes, there will be almost no one who will be saved by their
 complete faith.  Why is this so?
      Of course, not all believers on earth have perfect faith, but there
 are people all over the world who are going the way of true faith. Then
 why did Jesus imply that he would not find faith?  Furthermore, who
 would fail to recognize the Lord coming on a literal cloud? Certainly
 even non-believers would recognize him and have faith in him.  Will
 people lack faith because someone will prevent them from having it?
 Certainly not.  Difficulties do not necessarily weaken a person's faith.
 We interpret Jesus' saying that he would not find faith on earth to mean
 that he is going to come in the same manner as at the first coming.
      When Jesus came two thousand years ago, there was great faith - of
 a sort - among the people.  Some prayed day and night in the temple, and
 they memorized the commandments.  They tried hard to keep all of the
 commandments and laws that God had ordered them to keep.  They
 faithfully offered their tithes, and they fasted.  In this sense, they
 had great faith in God, yet there was no true faith.  Why didn't they
 have a faith that would allow them to believe in Jesus as the Messiah
 sent by God?
      From this viewpoint, Jesus could not find any faith on earth!
 Similarly, today there are millions of good Christians waiting for the
 Lord to appear - on the clouds; but if he comes in the same way as he
 did before, will he find the faith that will enable Christians to
 recognize him?
      To emphasize once again, based on the Bible passages quoted above
 and on the lessons learned from God's work in history, the Second Coming
 will occur as the first coming did, with the Messiah's being born in the
 flesh on earth.  Indeed, he comes as the Son of man.

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Conference 14
Date       04-26-92 22:06:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject      GREETINGS

 ND> But, Terry, even Satan himself can disguise himself as an angel
 ND> of light. Also, Judas Iscariot, even though he was taught by a
 ND> good tree, spoiled.
 You do know that this is the most common way that people deal with the
 reality that Mormon people are bearing good fruits?   I hope you aren't
 learning from those who persecute you?
 ND>     Terry, may I invite you to tell me about how you learned about
         the Unification Church and how you became a member?
 About 2 days before I turned 25 years old I had a kind of revelation
 that my life would change when I turned 25.  It was not the kind of
 event that you would expect to find in a Hollywood movie, but
 nevertheless it was real.  A few days later, the day before I turned 25,
 I met members of the Unification Church in a park in San Francisco Ca.
 They invited me to come over for dinner that evening and I went.  I
 heard an introductory lecture to the Divine Principle and was invited to
 go to a workshop.  I was traveling around the country at that time and
 had no pressing schedule so I went to the workshop.  I heard the
 teachings of the Divine Principle and for the first time in my life, I
 heard a religious teaching that made sense to me and did not leave me
 with the common religious problem of struggling with faith and reason.
      It was a real struggle for me to give up my carefree independent
 way of life and live Moonie style.  Not only was it a challenge to live
 in a small house with about 40 other people and go out everyday and try
 to witness to people or fund raise with flowers, but I also did not like
 the idea of refraining from romantic relationships.  I also did not like
 to be persecuted.  The only reason I could accept these difficulties is
 because when I heard the Divine Principe and got a fairly clear
 understanding of it, after hearing it, from beginning to end, about 3
 time, I decided I wasn't going to do anything, for or against the
 teaching until God gave me a clear direction.   I went alone to a place
 that I had chosen to pray and I prayed more sorcerously, more deeply,
 and with more passion and determination than I had ever prayed or heard
 anyone pray in my life. Then I quietened myself and listened for God to
 speak.  God spoke to me and gave me a clear undeniable sign that He
 wanted me to support this movement.
      The reality is that I found God.  I cannot deny that.   I also
 found someone who understood the suffering heart of God.  I came to
 realize God's situation and His point of view.  Later when I joined our
 national mobile fund raising team (MFT) I had numerous deep spiritual
 experiences. I learned about the reality of the spiritual world and how
 the host of heaven, the scripture speaks of, is working to support Rev.
 Moon.
      I joined the UC September 13, 1976 and in February 23, 1977 this is
 what I heard Rev. Moon say:  "When I declared that I would go to Moscow,
 I meant it.  When they hear me say, "Moscow is our goal," the communist
 will laugh.  "How can you?"   All right, they can laugh.  Twenty years
 ago in Korea, in a small room only big enough for two or three people,
 with a roof that leaked, I talked about world unification.  Twenty years
 ago in that small room, everybody though those were crazy ideas. Today,
 compared to the size of the communists' power, the New Yorker Hotel is
 like that small cubbyhole of 20 years ago.  We have only a handful of
 people, yet we are talking about the liberation of the communists; we
 are talking about Moscow.  I am sure most people laugh. Let them laugh
 now.  I know one thing; in the communist world, the children of the
 communist leaders are on the side of God. The next generation in the
 Soviet Union will be on my side."
      Do you know that I went to the CIS in January and participated in
 workshops that educated 3,260 CIS college students the teachings of the
 Divine Principle?  My wife went back a month later and participated with
 the education of 7,000 high school students.   17,000 had applied to go
 to that seminar from the city of Moscow alone.  This summer the plans
 are underway to teach the Divine Principle to 15 to 20 thousand
 students.  There is simply no way I could tell you of things that are
 going to happen both here in America and around the world.   But I can
 tell you one thing and that is the influence/activity of the spiritual
 world is going to intensify and the people who continue to persecuted
 Rev. Moon are going to decline so rapidly they won't know what happened.
 Not only that, but people who don't understand the Divine Principle are
 going to start going insane because they simply won't be able to
 understand the reality of the spiritual world and how to deal with it.
      Back to your original question...  you know that people often ask
 "Why did you join this church, or that church..."  But I find the real
 question is why did you stay with this church or that church.  After all
 people join groups everyday, from the bowling league to the boy scouts
 to the various political and religious organizations... but it isn't our
 joining the UC or the Mormons that really concerns people, but they are
 wondering why we remain so deeply committed.  Why would I be sitting at
 this monitor late at night, tired and sleepy, after moving two
 customer's furniture today, taking the time to peck and bang away at my
 keyboard  ...to leave a message in this conference ...where I have never
 had one person really welcome or support me in over 2 1/2 years? Why are
 we so committed to our faith?  Why haven't I burned out after almost 16
 years?  Either I have found the love of God or Rev. Moon is a master
 hypnotist.  The reality is that I can see there is no hope for the
 future of my country and christianity unless there is a revival.
      I wish I could share with you the words I heard the night before
 last. They were spoken by the vice-president of the Washing Times
 Newspaper. He was the keynote speaker at the New Orleans United to Serve
 America symposium.  He pointed out that the decline of America is the
 direct result of peoples loss in the belief and augmentability to a
 supreme being.  He also pointed out that one state in our union has
 flourished because a majority of the people who live there do hold a
 commonly shared belief in God and that man is accountable to Him. While
 the entire United States regressed into deeper debt and despair, Utah
 was prospering.  Corporate headquarters were moving there and sinking
 unheard of financial assets in that state.  Clearly the results of
 turning away from God is not only poverty and despair, but no one really
 wants to have anything to do with such a looser.

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 08:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Benny Diaz
Subject     Only 144,000

 BD> Yes, I would agree that the 144,000 are with the Lamb of God *in
 BD> heaven*.

 Where is Heaven?

 LUK 17:20    And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom
 of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh
 not with observation:  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!
 for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 ROM 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink;but righteousness
 and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost

 REV 21:1    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven
 and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 EPH 1:10    That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might
 gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven,
 and which are on earth; [even] in him:

 MAR 13:31   Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not
 pass away.

 If heaven (or earth) passes away then what will happen to the 144,000 ?

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 09:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    WORKS

 RH> Just read one of you post. And you said "I'm not going to
 RH> suppose I can get to heaven through God's grace alone."
 RH>
 RH> But, it says in Gods word the Bible "For by grace are ye
 RH> saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of
 RH> God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
 RH>
 RH> Just the opposed of what you said. Hummm, I guess I'll Go
 RH> with God.

 You would do yourself a service to go back and read what I said.  Grace
 alone cannot save you... Your biblical quote does not disagree with
 that.

 If grace was all that was necessary for salvation then man would be free
 from accountability.  Are accountable?

 RH> but you keep on talking and said "If God's grace was
 RH> sufficient to save anyone we would have no need for
 RH> Repentance"
 RH>
 RH> But again God's word says "If God peradventure will GIVE THEM
 RH> REPENTANCE to the acknowledging of the truth"

 Do you interpret this to be saying that it is up to God to initiate your
 repentance.  It sure looks like that is your belief. How can God repent
 for man?  You are placing all responsibility and accountability on God.
 This is purely an escape from your portion of responsibility.

 RH> But! Still you keep talking and said "What you don't
 RH> understand is the concept of restoration through indemnity. You
 RH> must purify yourself before you can dwell in Heaven."
 RH>
 RH> But god said "A new heart also will I give you and a new
 RH> spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony
 RH> heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of
 RH> flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to
 RH> walk in my statutes
 RH> and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."  Ezekiel 36:26-27

 But none of this comes to a person who does not make effort.  You
 teaching seeks to avoid effort.  That is your mistake.

 RH> God said he going to purify me.

 Only if you overcome temptation and follow His commandments.  You still
 can't see that you must wash your own robes.

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 11:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject     Earthquakes

 PB>          "Immediately  AFTER the  tribulation  of those days
 PB> the sun will be darkened,  and the moon will not give
 PB> its light, and the  stars  will fall  from heaven,  and
 PB> the  powers  of the heavens will be shaken.  And then
 PB> THE SIGN of the Son of man will appear in heaven"
 PB> (Matthew 24:29-30, NWT)

 Philip, how do you ballance this kind of prophecy with others like this?

 MAR 8:12    And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this
             generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There
             shall no sign be given unto this generation.

 LUK 17:20   And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom
             of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom
             of God cometh not with observation:

 LUK 17:26   And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the
             days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they
             married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day
             that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and
             destroyed them all.

 2PE 3:10    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 21:07:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Agreement

 PM>     Terry, it's my impression also, that God is going to do it
 PM>     HIS Way, not your way.

 You know I do not disagree that God is going to do it HIS way ... but
 you are implying that you know God's way.  How could that be?  I know
 God's way and you don't understand restoration through indemnity, so you
 clearly don't know God's way.  You are waiting on grace to strike.  It
 would help if you sent up a lightening rod.

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 21:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Christology

 PM> TB> You must initiate your own personal return to God.
 PM> .
 PM>     Hmmm.  How can that happen, if we're "totally" depraved?
 PM> .
 PM>     Perhaps you will want to rephrase your statement...?
 PM> phil.phm

 I doubt it would help you.  In the first place we are not "totally
 depraved."   And second you could do your own investigation of the
 scripture and find plenty of reading about seeking.... which means to
 initiate if we are using the same language.

 "seek God" occurs in 54 verses.
 "seek Lord" occurs in 81 verses.
 "seek His" occurs in 48 verses.

 When you finish that assignment, come back and we can talk.

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 21:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Messiah

 PM>     My ignorance is showing.  Please expalin that a bit more.
 Before Walter misinforms you, consider this:
      In Genesis 3 the Bible shows that it was a serpent that tempted Eve
 to sin.  However, the serpent referred to there cannot be a serpent in
 the literal sense--it must be a symbol.
      In Genesis 3 we also see that the "serpent" talked with the woman
 and that he understood that God had told Adam and Eve not to eat the
 Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  In order for the
 "serpent" to be able to speak to man and know what God had instructed,
 the "serpent" must have been a spirit being.  Revelation 12:9 says, "And
 that great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called
 the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down
 to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him," indicating that
 the "ancient serpent" is the Devil.  This "ancient serpent" is the very
 "serpent" which tempted Eve.  Since Revelation 12:9 says that the
 "serpent" was thrown down from heaven, we know that the "serpent" was in
 heaven prior to being thrown down, and therefore that he must have been
 a spiritual being.
      Since we know that the "serpent" is Satan (Rev 12:9), we can learn
 who the "serpent" was by discovering who Satan is.  In order to know who
 Satan is, we must discover the identity of the spirit being which was in
 heaven before it sinned.  It can be argued that since the "serpent" was
 originally in Eden before being thrown down from heaven, the "serpent"
 must originally have been a being that God created with the nature of
 goodness and a being that was not yet perfect, because (1) there was no
 being in Eden which was not created by God; (2) God creates only good;
 and (3) no good being could commit a sin after becoming perfect.
      Some imagine that this spirit being which is symbolized ass a
 serpent was a being which existed even before the Creation existed and
 was a being whose intent was evil, contrary to that of God.  However,
 with the exception of fallen man, everything in the cosmos exists
 according to one perfect order; so it is not possible that there could
 have been from the beginning a source of evil which was contrary to God.
 If there had originally been two opposing forces in the universe, their
 contradictory purposes would have caused the universe to be destroyed.
 It can only be concluded that this spirit being was originally created
 for the purpose of goodness, but later, while in the process of growing,
 fell and became Satan.  This being was able to converse with man; it
 knew God's Will; it originally lived in heaven; it had the ability to
 tempt man; and this being, after falling and becoming Satan, was still
 able, transcendent of time and space, to influence man's mind and
 spirit, causing man to lead a life of evil.  What being is endowed with
 such abilities?  No being other than the angel is endowed with such
 abilities.  One might ask whether angels can commit sins, but biblical
 evidence for this is clear. In fact, when we read 2 Peter 2:4, which
 says "...God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them
 into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom...," we can clearly
 see that angels can and do sin. Taking due note that Revelation 12:7-9,
 in saying "his angels," indicates that the "serpent" was in fact a
 leader of angels, we can understand that the "serpent" was an angel.
      Then what was the sin of this angel?  Jude 6-7 says, "And the
 angels that did not keep their own position but left their proper
 dwelling have been kept by him in eternal chains in the nether gloom
 until the judgment of the great day; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the
 surrounding cities, which likewise [like the angels] acted immorally and
 indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a
 punishment of eternal fire."  The sin of the angel (in the Garden) was
 the sin of fornication.  Since fornication cannot be committed alone,
 there must have been a partner.  But who could it have been?  The Bible
 tells us of only three beings that sinned in the Garden of Eden; the
 serpent and Adam and Eve.  Let us consider what the sin of the first man
 and woman could have been.
      In Genesis 3:7 we read that after being tempted by the serpent and
 committing sin, the first ancestors became ashamed of their nakedness
 and covered the lower parts of their bodies.  However, before their fall
 Adam and Eve were naked but unashamed (Gen 2:25).  Then when we read
 that they covered the lower, or sexual, parts of their bodies with fig
 leaves after they sinned, we must ask ourselves whether man also
 committed the sin of fornication.
      It is in fallen man's nature to try to conceal his faults and
 wrongs; so if the fruit of good and evil were a fruit in the literal
 sense, Adam and Eve should have covered their hands or mouths if they
 had taken the fruit with their hands or had eaten it with their mouths.
 Yet we find that they covered their sexual parts, not their hands and
 mouths.  This is an indication that Adam and Eve's transgression
 involved their sexual parts.  Job 31:33 says, "...I have concealed my
 transgression...like Adam by hiding my iniquity in my bosom" (emphasis
 added).  Job's words indicate that Adam concealed his transgression, and
 since we know that Adam and Eve concealed their sexual parts, we can
 conclude that their sin involved their sexual parts.
      In the Garden of Eden, the only sin that man would possible commit
 at the risk of his life was a sin involving love.  Adam and Eve were to
 grow as brother and sister, and, after perfecting themselves, were to
 establish the Kingdom of Heaven by becoming the first husband and wife
 and creating God's family, fulfilling the Purpose of the Creation.
 However, when Jesus says in John 8:44, "'You are of your father the
 devil...,'" he clearly shows that fallen people are descendants of the
 Devil.  Adam and Eve forsook God, their true father, and became one with
 a false father, Satan, which is the reason that Romans 8:23 says, "...we
 ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we
 wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies" (emphasis
 added).  The fact that we are waiting for adoption into God's lineage
 tells us that we are not of God's lineage.  In Matthew 3:7 and Matthew
 23:33, respectively, John the Baptist and Jesus called the people a
 "brood of vipers"--in other words, the offspring of serpents-clearly
 indicating that fallen man is the offspring of Satan.  Thus we can
 clearly understand that fallen man belongs to Satan's lineage, not
 God's.  This is the result of Eve's committing the sin of fornication
 with the angel.  As a result of this crime, all human beings have been
 born as the "children" of Satan.

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 21:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Messiah

 PM>     My ignorance is showing.  Please expalin that a bit more.
                              Misuse of Love
 Since a tree reproduces itself by its fruit (which bears the seeds) and
 man reproduces by a sexual relationship, then the Fruit of the Tree of
 the Knowledge of Good and Evil symbolizes the sexual love of Eve.  The
 fact that Eve ate the fruit which Satan persuaded her to eat means that
 she committed fornication with Satan.  Since eating something means to
 make it a part of our flesh and blood, Eve's giving Adam the fruit of
 good and evil and his eating it means that Eve caused Adam to fall
 through this same act of illicit love.

 Therefore, the root of sin is not the first human ancestors' eating a
 literal fruit, but their establishing a blood relationship through
 fornication with the archangel, who was symbolized by the serpent, This
 blood relationship is the cause for the Original Sin's being passed on
 from generation to generation.  All religions which try to remove sin
 have branded and treated adultery as one of the greatest sins.  Based on
 this view of Original Sin, we can understand why the Israelites had to
 be circumcised to be considered God's chosen people. It was required in
 order to make restitution for the misuse of the sexual parts, by which
 man had become Satan's descendants.  We may be able to put a stop to all
 other sins through social, educational, or economic improvements, but
 even though civilization develops and social and economic conditions
 improve to the point where we can enjoy a more stable life, the increase
 of sexual promiscuity and of man;s inclination toward moral degradation
 cannot be stopped by anyone.

 The reason that Satan is able to break down the proper order of man's
 love as the Last Days approach is because the first ancestors became
 husband and wife without the permission or blessing of God and united
 with Satan an their false father.  Their children where thus born as
 children of sin, and not of God, and they established a world of
 faithlessness, evil, and war.  Consequently, Satan has dominated man as
 he has seen fit (Jn 8:44).

 Despite the fact that God created man and the cosmos, He has never been
 able to have the central role in any of the world's affairs--to rule
 according to his Will alone.  Man cast Satan in the starring role, and
 Satan has been falsely playing the part of the lord.  It is for this
 reason that Satan is referred to as "the ruler of this world" (Jn 12:31)
 and "the god of this world" (2 Cor 4:4).

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 21:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Dave Bachman
Subject     Messiah

 DB> As we have been instructed to "be fruitful and multiply", sexual
 DB> promiscuity
 DB> does not enter the scenario where A & E are concerned, because
 DB> they were suppose
 DB> ly the only human beings in existence at the time.

 You fail to understand that God was telling them the same thing we tell
 our children...  mature, AND THEN start your family.   God said [first]
 be fruitful ( mature ) and [then] multiply.  Adam and Eve did like many
 teenagers today and decided they were wanted to experience conjugal
 love.  That is the reason the family is in a crisis today.  AND the only
 way to restore the family, which is the foundation of society, is to
 solve the problem of impure love.

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 21:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Messiah

 DB> sexual promiscuity does not enter the scenario where A & E are
 DB> concerned, because they were supposedly the only human beings in
 DB> existence at the time.

 PM>    I AM IMPRESSED that you repsonded!  Do it some more.

 You would be...   I once thought you were on God's side, but now I'm
 having doubts.    What is "impressive" about the sexual promiscuity of
 Adam and Eve?  Do you think children should be taught to experience
 sexual relationships just like animals... any time any place, with
 anyone?   Obviously you don't think God would give His children the same
 advice that loving caring parents give to their teenagers.  You should
 think more.

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 21:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Sin

 PM> WC> The Rev Moon can "match and marry" 100 million couples and
 PM> every WC> one of them that produces a child will produce a child
 PM> with a sin WC> nature and that includes any children the Rev
 PM> Moon sires.
 PM>     Walter, you tell it like it is!.                phil.phm


 PSA 22:1  My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? ...All they that
 see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head,
 [saying], " Walter, you tell it like it is!.       phil.phm"

 The MOST miserable people in hell are those who betrayed Christ.  Why do
 you risk joining them?

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 21:59:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Who's Saving Who(m?)

 PM> DF> to belong explicitly and 100% to the true Church on earth.
 PM> Don't get DF> me wrong. Protestants can be saved, and many
 PM> protestants are far more DF> holy and good than am I.
 PM> .
 PM>     Take heart!  We are not saved by our OWN goodness!

 Amen !

 MAT 5:13    Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his
 savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for
 nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

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Conference 14
Date       04-27-92 22:01:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Why

 PM>    Look how God has tried to instruct man, on the
 PM>    proper ways to live!
 PM> .
 PM>    Look at all the cultivation which has been done!
 PM> .
 PM>    Look at the cross!
 PM> .
 PM>    What more COULD HE have done, than He *had* done?

 Given that bit of correct knowledge, how can anyone think that salvation
 is not left up to man?   How can people be deceived into thinking that
 salvation is dependent on anything BUT the fulfillment of man's portion
 of responsibility?

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 08:04:00
From       Terry Blount
To         C. Spurgeon
Subject    How is a man saved?

 CS> Tell me how do you think a man is saved?

 In the beginning, God gave the first man and woman a commandment which
 they were to obey until they perfected themselves.  The realization of
 the Purpose of the Creation is possible only if man and woman accomplish
 their responsibility, by obeying the commandment.  The Purpose of the
 Creation is not to be accomplished simply by concern and action on the
 part of God.  Although man's responsibility may seem infinitely small,
 it is a principle of the Creation that man's responsibility is a
 necessary element.  Thus, in order to restore the lost Purpose of the
 Creation, man's portion of responsibility is also absolutely essential--
 it cannot be done by God's power and dispensation alone.

 But it is possible for man either to fulfill his responsibility or not
 to fulfill it.  When a person does fulfill his responsibility, God's
 Will is manifested in history through that person, and God's
 dispensation is concretely accomplished and restoration progresses. But
 when a person fails to fulfill his responsibility, God's dispensation
 through that person is frustrated, and Satan's will comes to be
 reflected in history instead.  Thus, man can make God happy, by
 fulfilling his responsibility, or sad, by failing in his responsibility.
 The reason that human history appears to be nothing but a constant
 re-enactment of sinful history, with the prospect of an ideal world
 seemingly so distant, is not because God is impotent, or because he is
 not absolute, but because man has not fulfilled his responsibility to
 carry out God's Will.  God is absolute, eternal, and omnipotent;
 therefore, the accomplishment of his Purpose for the Creation and of his
 purpose of restoration are also absolute.  God's will for restoration
 will definitely be accomplished (Is 46:11). Therefore, when the person
 carrying out the will does not fulfill his responsibility, God, after a
 period of time restores the same foundation and conditions as before,
 and chooses another person to carry out the same mission.  This is
 precisely the reason that we see very similar incidents and events
 recurring throughout the long history of God's dispensation, even after
 periods of two to four thousand years.

             The Dispensation for Restoration and the Messiah

 What are the specific principles of God's dispensation for the
 restoration of fallen man?  At the completion level of the growth stage,
 man fell and thus came under the dominion of Satan.  In order for God to
 restore fallen people, God must first separate them from Satan.  This is
 because as long as man remains an object to Satan, or remains under his
 influence, the Purpose of the Creation cannot be fulfilled.  In order to
 be completely separated from Satan, leaving no basis by which Satan can
 invade again, a person must be cleansed of Original Sin, because it is
 the root of all the bases by which Satan accuses and invades fallen man.
 However, Original Sin cannot be removed unless man is reborn through the
 Messiah, who comes as the True Parent.  Only the Messiah can eliminate
 the Original Sin.

 The Messiah, who is thus the most indispensable central person in the
 Dispensation for Restoration, is the model of a true person, and it is
 through him that God creates true individuals, families, tribes,
 nations, and a world that fulfill the original Ideal for the Creation.
 So, God cannot send the Messiah to the world without preparing it.
 Preparation is necessary because, ever since the Fall of man, mankind
 has been serving the false master, Satan, and if the Messiah were sent
 without a prepared environment, there is the danger that the satanic
 world would try to eliminate him.  Therefore, from the midst of the evil
 people who are serving the false master, God first chooses one
 individual who will honor and obey him.  Based on this individual, God
 creates families and nations separated from Satan's side, families and
 nations which then can serve as a foundation of faith upon which the
 Messiah can come.

 Since at the beginning of God's Dispensation for Restoration the Messiah
 had not yet come, fallen man had to meet the condition of symbolically
 restoring himself to the completion level of the growth state.  Man thus
 establishes the foundation to receive the Messiah. To begin this
 process, man must go through a course of separation from Satan.  And as
 a result of this process, fallen man receives the Messiah, who comes as
 the True Parent, and is reborn.  Through this rebirth, a person is
 restored to the position of Adam or Eve before the Fall.  Since the
 level from which the first man and woman fell was the completion level
 of the growth stage, the completion level of the growth stage is also
 the level at which he is born again in the course of restoration.
 Consequently, the completion stage still remains to be gone through. Man
 grows through this stage by following the Messiah, finally reaching the
 position where he fulfills the Purpose of the Creation.  Originally,
 man's responsibility during his growing period is only to follow the Way
 of The Principle.  However, fallen man is required to pass through two
 courses on his way to perfection: (1) the first course is the Way of
 Restoration, which includes the course he must follow until the
 Messiah's coming and his rebirth through the Messiah; (2) the second
 course is the original Way of The Principle, which is the path he must
 follow through the remaining stage of the growing period, namely, the
 completion stage.  Fallen man does this by following the Messiah.

 If Adam and Eve had perfected themselves, thus becoming the True Parents
 and True Ancestors of the human race, their children would have followed
 the Way of The Principle under the guidance and protection of their
 parents.  After being born again through the Messiah, the Way of The
 Principle requires man to be completely obedient to the Messiah and to
 rely on him while growing to perfection, for he stands as the True
 Parent.

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 08:07:00
From       Terry Blount
To         C. Spurgeon
Subject    How is a man saved?

 CS> Tell me how do you think a man is saved?

 Then what is the Way of Restoration which must be followed until the
 Messiah comes?  In other words, what are the principles of God's
 dispensation until he sends the Messiah?  These questions can be
 answered by understanding what is involved in preparing for the Messiah.
 Since the Messiah comes in the position of Adam (1 Cor 15:45), he cannot
 appear at just any time; he can only appear when man has been restored
 to the position that Adam had reached just prior to the Fall, that
 position being the completion level of the growth stage.  That is, the
 Messiah can appear only when there is a foundation for him to stand on
 in the position of the original sinless Adam.  However, fallen man
 cannot reach that state on his own because he has Original Sin.
 Therefore, God requires that fallen man meet certain
 conditions--conditions such that man can be considered as having been
 symbolically restored to this level--in other words, such that man has
 restored the completion level of the growth stage in form.  Therefore,
 God's dispensation prior to the Messiah's coming may be summarized as
 mankind's restoring the foundation upon which the Messiah can appear.
 Consequently, in the Way of Restoration, man's responsibility is to
 restore the foundation for receiving the Messiah.

 What does 'restoration through indemnity' mean?  In order for something
 to be restored to a position or state which it has lost, certain
 conditions must be met.  To meet these conditions is to indemnify the
 loss of the original--and thus, to restore through indemnity.

 Man lost his original state and position because of the Fall.  In order
 for him to restore that original position and state, he must meet
 certain conditions.  Since meeting these conditions indemnifies the
 loss, returning to the original state by meeting the required conditions
 is called restoration through indemnity.  The conditions that need to be
 met for this process of restoration through indemnity are called
 indemnity conditions. The dispensation to restore fallen man's Original
 Nature through fulfilling indemnity conditions is called the
 Dispensation for Restoration through Indemnity.

 Next, we need to understand the different kinds of indemnity conditions.
 The first kind is the indemnity condition of an equal amount, such as
 that found in Exodus 21:23-25: "'If any harm follows, then you shall
 give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot
 for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.'"  This
 means that the original state is restored by paying indemnity of a value
 that is identical to the loss or damage.

 The second kind of indemnity condition is the indemnity condition of a
 lesser amount.  In this case, the original state is restored by paying
 indemnity of a value that is less than that which was originally lost.
 For example, we receive the great benefit of Jesus' resurrection from
 the dead by meeting the very small indemnity condition of 'having faith
 in redemption through the cross'.  Other examples of indemnity
 conditions of a lesser amount are baptism and holy communion.  Through
 baptism we meet the condition of having to be cleansed of sin, and in
 holy communion we meet the condition of having to be one in spirit and
 body with Christ.

 The third kind of indemnity condition is the indemnity condition of a
 greater amount.  When a person fails to fulfill his responsibility to
 meet an indemnity condition of a lesser amount, then he must restore the
 original state by meeting an indemnity condition of a greater amount.
 For example, when the Israelite's forty days of spying in Canaan (at the
 time of Moses) failed to meet with God's approval, the duration of the
 indemnity condition was increased to one year for each of the original
 days.  Instead of suffering for forty days in the wilderness, they had
 to suffer for forty years (Num 14:34).

 Next, what is the method involved in meeting an indemnity condition? An
 indemnity condition is the condition that must be met in order for
 something to be restored to its original position or state.  An
 indemnity condition achieves this by being the reversal of the process
 which led to the loss of the original position or state.  Because the
 first man and woman failed to fulfill their responsibility  and fell
 away from God, their descendants have been required to fulfill the
 indemnity conditions required in the Way of Restoration.

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 08:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         C. Spurgeon
Subject    How is a man saved?

 CS> Tell me how do you think a man is saved?


 Let us now consider what indemnity is required to restore the Foundation
 of Substance.  If, on the basis of their Foundation of Faith, Adam and
 Eve had perfected themselves as true children of God, they would have
 been the perfect incarnations of God's Word and the incarnations of the
 character of the invisible God.  Had this happened, man would have had
 dominion over all things, including the archangel, thereby fulfilling
 God's Third Blessing.  A Principle relationship would have been
 established between man and all things, including the angels.

 However, Adam and Eve never established a Foundation of Faith, and
 consequently, did not establish the Foundation of Substance either.
 Instead, Adam and Eve were defiled by Fallen Nature and ended up being
 dominated by the archangel.

 To establish the Foundation of Substance, fallen man must meet the
 Indemnity Condition for Removing the Fallen Nature and restore the
 proper horizontal order, which was disrupted.  This is done by reversing
 the process through which man acquired the Fallen Nature.

 Specifically, what is it that has to be done to remove the Fallen
 Nature?  The first factor in the process of the fall of the archangel
 lay in the archangel's failure to love Adam, who was receiving more love
 from God.  Fallen man inherited this fallen nature of 'not taking the
 same viewpoint as God'.  To remove this fallen nature, a person in the
 position of the archangel must love a person in Adam's position, thereby
 taking the same viewpoint as God.

 The second factor in the process of the fall of the archangel was his
 not wanting to receive God's love through Adam who was closer to God.
 Instead, the archangel attempted to take Adam's position, and he fell,
 giving rise to the fallen nature of 'leaving one's position'.  To remove
 this fallen nature, a person in the archangel's position must receive
 God's love through the person in Adam's position, thus keeping his
 proper position.

 The third factor in the process of the Fall was the archangel's
 dominating Adam and Eve instead of allowing himself to be governed by
 them.  From this came the fallen nature of 'reversing the order of
 dominion'.  To remove this fallen nature, a person in the archangel's
 position should be obedient to and submit to a person in Adam's
 position, thereby establishing the proper order of dominion.

 The will of goodness not to eat of the Fruit of the Tree of the
 Knowledge of Good and Evil should have been received from God by Adam,
 from Adam by Eve, and from Eve by the archangel, thus multiplying
 goodness.  However, instead of goodness being multiplied, Eve accepted
 from the archangel that she could eat the Fruit of the Tree of the
 Knowledge of Good and Evil, and Adam accepted that direction from Eve,
 thus multiplying the will for evil and causing them to fall.  Thus, the
 final aspect of the Fallen Nature was created--the nature of
 'multiplying sin'.  To remove this fallen nature of multiplying sin, a
 person in the archangel's position must receive the righteous will from
 a person in Adam's position, restoring the nature that multiplies the
 will of goodness.

 When all these conditions are met, the Indemnity Condition for Removing
 the Fallen Nature is met, and this constitutes the Foundation of
 Substance.  The Foundation for the Messiah is made by restoring through
 indemnity the Foundation of Faith and the Foundation of Substance.  It
 is only on this foundation that fallen man can receive the Messiah.

 From the foregoing, we can understand that the history of mankind is the
 dispensational history in which God leads man to prepare himself to
 receive the Messiah by inducing man to fulfill his responsibility. When
 man finishes this preparation, God will send the Messiah and conclude
 his Dispensation for Restoration.

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 08:09:00
From       Terry Blount
To         C. Spurgeon
Subject    How is a man saved?

 CS> Tell me how do you think a man is saved?

 Through the Dispensation for Restoration, God seeks to save all of
 mankind.  His methods for accomplishing the dispensation have varied
 somewhat according to the different histories, traditions, cultural
 backgrounds, and living conditions of the people with whom he has been
 dealing.  However, God carries out a model dispensation through one
 central nation.  He works his dispensation in other nations as
 peripheral histories, at some point grafting the peripheral histories to
 the central history in order that all of mankind can receive the benefit
 of salvation.

 As can be seen in the Old Testament, God had to go through many
 difficulties in the restoration process before finding one central
 nation.  From what is recorded in the Bible, it seems that once God
 established Israel as the central nation, he worked only through that
 nation.  And it is true that the training the Israelites received from
 God was very strict and special and that they received special blessings
 which cannot be found among other peoples.

 However, Jesus did not introduce God only as the God of the Jews, but as
 the God of all nations.  This is clearly shown in John 3:16, where Jesus
 said "'For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that
 whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life'"
 (emphasis added).  This means that anyone can be connected to the
 central dispensation of God--even those in the peripheral histories.

 As we study the Bible it becomes clear that God has focused on educating
 a central individual, family, tribe, and nation who will take charge of
 his model dispensation.  Yet, he has also led the peripheral
 dispensations toward the day when he would connect those individuals,
 families, tribes, and nations to the Messiah.

 John the Baptist also showed that salvation was within reach of all when
 he chastised the Israelites who did not have sincere faith and
 arrogantly prided themselves on being God's only chosen people, say to
 them, "'...do not presume to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our
 father"; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up
 children to Abraham'" (Mt 3:9).

 God's central dispensation of preparation for the Messiah is clearly
 shown in the Old Testament.  Right at the beginning, God's dispensation
 for Adam's family was frustrated by Cain's slaying Abel. Ten generations
 later, God's Will was transferred to Noah's family. However, because of
 the disbelief and failure of Noah's second son, Ham, the family
 Foundation for the Messiah was not established.  It was not until the
 time of Abraham's and Jacob's families that the Foundation for the
 Messiah was established (refer to Chapter 11). Based on Jacob's family,
 God was able to form the Israelites as the chosen people.  God's
 dispensation for the Israelites was to prepare the landing site of faith
 for the Messiah by having the Israelites establish the national
 Foundation for the Messiah.  As was explained in detail in "The Purpose
 of the Messiah," the Israelites failed to establish the national
 Foundation for the Messiah.  They ended up committing the historic error
 of not believing in the Messiah.

 Jesus promised a Second Coming.  There should be preparation on earth
 for the Second Coming similar to that made for the First Coming.  The
 past two thousand years of Christian history have had one central
 purpose--that of establishing the world-wide foundation for the Second
 Coming of the Messiah.  Therefore, the history of Israel before the
 coming of Jesus and the History of Christianity since his time are the
 core material of the history of the Dispensation for Restoration.

 Looking at history in this way, we can begin to understand the meaning
 and significance of the events in the history of the Jewish people as
 recorded in the Old Testament.  It is not merely a history of one
 particular nation, but is rather the model history through which God has
 worked his dispensation for salvation.  The history of the Jewish
 people, centered on Judaism, and Wester history, centered on
 Christianity, together are the clearest record of God's Dispensation,
 and astonishingly, we can see a consistent formula which is applied
 throughout these two histories.

 Since religion guides man's mind and spirit toward accomplishing the
 restoration of mankind, from the dispensational viewpoint, the history
 of religion is the central history of God's Dispensation.  The other
 histories, such as the histories of the development of politics,
 economics, science, and culture con be considered as peripheral.

 God's Purpose for the Creation is fulfilled in the Three Blessings.
 First, each individual is to perfect himself.  Next, he is to establish
 an ideal family, an ideal world, and ideal living conditions.
 Consequently, the first objective in God's Dispensation for Restoration
 is not to restore man's social institutions, or his living conditions;
 it is to restore people.  Consequently, from the standpoint of the
 Dispensation, the history of religion is the central history, while the
 other histories are peripheral.

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 08:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject      Moon Is A fake Chrihr

 RH> Jump over the meat of the Topic Take the last line and Mock.

 Look at who is jumping over the meat and doing the mocking.

 RH> Is it because your in a fake religion one that can not save?

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 18:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gerard Trigo
Subject    God & Satan

 GT> You have convinced me that Satan exists and what church is
 GT> the true church. Only a creature such as Satan could spawn
 GT> such hatred as you espouse. Since that hatred is directed at
 GT> the RCC it must be the true church.

 I have to admit there is a great deal of logic in your comment.  Makes
 me wish he was persecuting me. <grin>

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 18:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject    MEETING

 PB>  GT> I was thinking about between 10 and 10:30.
 PB>
 PB>     That will be fine.  I will see you with your white cap.  I
 PB> will have my black shirt with the word "JESUS".

 What !  A meeting and I'm not invited?  How would you guys like your
 access dropped so you could ONLY upload files over here?

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 18:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ Jesus

 WC> TB> Today, Christianity must repent that it too has lost its
 WC> content TB> and has become mere formality.
 WC>
 WC>     Salvation is on the individual level today as it has been
 WC> from the day of Pentecost. It is not some nebulous
 WC> "Christianity" which must repent it is individuals who have
 WC> transgressed.

 You seem to have forgotten how christianity is viewed:

 1CO 12:14   For the body is not one member, but many.
 1CO 12:25   That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the
 members should have the same care one for another.

 WC>     Not as you would have us believe. Jesus will come back as
 WC> the head of His heavenly army to bring judgment. He will not be
 WC> teaching but judging. Those who resist will be destroyed and
 WC> cast into outer darkness.

 Your statement shows that you clearly have no experience of the love of
 God.

 WC>     The Scripture do not teach any such new teachings and
 WC> reforma- tion. They teach that Jesus comes as King to bring
 WC> judgment to the unrighteous. That is exactly what will happen
 WC> because it is what God says will happen.

  Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break,
  and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine
  into new bottles, and both are preserved. And no man putteth new wine
  into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the
  wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be
  put into new bottles. And no man putteth new wine into old bottles;
  else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the
  bottles shall perish. But new wine must be put into new bottles; and
  both are preserved.

 WC> TB> At the Second Coming, Christ will proclaim God's Will, which
 WC> must TB> be realized on the earth
 WC>
 WC>     It will be realized because it will be carried out by force.
 WC> Those that resist will be destroyed. There will be no such
 WC> education program as you envision.

 Love simply cannot exist under a situation of force. That is called
 slavery.

 WC> TB> was there any one who cared for Jesus as a baby, or publicly
 WC> TB> supported him after he began his mission?
 WC>
 WC>     John the Baptist did until he was thrown into prison and was
 WC> physically restrained from doing so.

 John was not restrained from denying Jesus' claim that John was the
 return of Elijah.  John worked against Jesus.  Anyone with a clear mind
 can easily see that.

 WC> TB> Let us humbly listen to the voice of our original mind and
 WC> search TB> for the announcement of the Messiah.
 WC>
 WC>     Anyone that does this will end up in the lake of fire for
 WC> their troubles. The voice the one will hear will NOT be that of
 WC> God.

 Sounds like you are speaking from personal experience.  I thought you
 told me you could hear the voices of the Holy Spirit?


 WC>     Unfortunately that is exactly what it will be. It will be
 WC> the New Age that makes such announcements. The Bible says that
 WC> they will all be wrong. In fact, they have already made such
 WC> announcements. And amazingly enough the Bible was absolutely
 WC> correct. They were wrong. All such announcements will continue
 WC> to be wrong because no man kno- weth the day or hour of His
 WC> coming.

 AMO 3:7     Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his
 secret unto his servants the prophets.

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 18:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus & Peter         1/

 WC>     Sanctification literally means separation. It is basically
 WC> equiv- alent to holiness, which means separation from sin and
 WC> consecration to God. Sanctification is the process of becoming
 WC> righteous--actually becoming like Christ.

 You got that right.  Now who has done this?  It has not been done until
 Rev. Moon was called by Jesus and anointed with this mission.  I only
 wish you could understand this.

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 18:49:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Second Advent

 WC>     While the spirit (attitude) was the same it was as you say a
 WC> different person. John was NOT Elijah. Elijah did not come back
 WC> to earth as you say.

 MAT 17:12   But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they
 knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise
 shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood
 that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

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Conference 14
Date       04-28-92 18:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Whose Hope?           1/

 WC>     It is not a possibility for an individual to become perfect
 WC> as you have defined it. It will never happen in this life time.

 One thing is sure, if you believe you can or if you believe you can't
 you are right in both cases.   Since you don't believe you can be
 perfect there is little hope you ever will.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 08:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Assemblies of God (d (s

 PM>     Which reminds me that he will be speaking at a conference
 PM>     near Chattanooga, TN May 19-23.
 PM> .
 PM>     Hope to ride my GL-1100 motorcycle there (200 miles) and
 PM>     attend.  At age 64, I need to be extra careful!    phil.phm

 That is a good idea.  In case that rapture thing happens while on the
 way, you won't be trapped in a car and suffer head and neck injury when
 you start suddenly going upward.  <grin>   Yes, and being careful is
 also a good idea.  You could just ride like mad and count on God's
 grace, but I may not hear from you again.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 08:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christology           2/

 SW> WC>     The dead do not communicate with the living. God calls
 SW> such WC> communication necromancy (communication between the
 SW> living and WC> the dead) an abomination.
 SW>
 SW> TB> You are just holding resentment against the Catholic church.
 SW> You think TB> that rejecting the blessings of the saints is
 SW> cool, but you are going

 Walter, can you do anything to restrain your congregation?  It should be
 obvious that you need to get a new church.  This one has completely lost
 all sight of common sense in its teaching's and belief's.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 08:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Cultists

 PM>     Perhaps the sly use of FORCE enters into the equation
 PM>     somehow.  One thing for sure, (s)atan uses force, and
 PM>     God doesn't.

 I wish you would report this finding to Walter.  He seems to think God
 is going to establish His kingdom through force violence and blood shed.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 10:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus & Peter         1/

 WC> TB> Christians have this mistaken thinking that they can get
 WC> back to TB> God without paying indemnity.
 WC>
 WC>     This is an impossibility, Terry. No human being can pay the
 WC> price necessary. Only Jesus was capable of paying that price.
 WC> This He did when He went to the cross. Jesus has already paid
 WC> the price for us. There is presently no price any human can make
 WC> that will be acceptable to God.

 It is irrational to think that God can pay the price for your sins.  Now
 let's consider who would have us that think that man is not responsible
 for his own sins?   Could it be SATAN ?  Why yes that is exactly who
 wants you to sit back and wait on God to fulfill you portion of
 responsibility.  With just a little common sense, anyone would be able
 to figure out that religion, prayer, faith, repentance, etc would be
 totally unnecessary if God were able to fulfill man's responsibility.

 Tell us Walter, did you go to school and take your children's test for
 them, and study for them at home?

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 10:24:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus & Peter         1/

 WC>     This is an impossibility, Terry. No human being can pay the
 WC> price necessary. Only Jesus was capable of paying that price.
 WC> This He did when He went to the cross. Jesus has already paid
 WC> the price for us. There is presently no price any human can make
 WC> that will be acceptable to God.

 Wrong answer.  You forgot you must take up your cross.  Better recheck
 your math.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 10:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus & Peter         1/

 WC>     I have considered it a number of times, Terry. Why no tell
 WC> us your interpretation and we'll know what you say it means.

 Christians today do not have a clear understanding of the truth behind
 the historic events that took place in Jesus' time.  If God's will for
 man's salvation could be accomplished only by the Crucifixion, why did
 he spend so much time preparing a chosen people?  Was it not because he
 did not want to hand his Son over to faithless people?

 In the garden at Gethsemane, Jesus prayed, "' ... My soul is very
 sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me ... My Father,
 if it be possible, let this cup pass from me ... '" (Mt 26:38, 39).
 Jesus uttered this prayer not once, but three times.  Many Christians,
 who believe that Jesus' mission was to bring salvation by dying on the
 cross, explain that Jesus uttered this prayer out of human weakness or
 frailty.  But could Jesus Christ, the savior of mankind, utter any
 prayer out of weakness?

 The first Christian martyr, Stephen, and many of the martyrs who
 followed, never prayed from such weakness.  Did they ever ask, "Let this
 cup pass from me," as they were dying?  How can we say that Jesus was
 weaker than these martyrs?  Especially if the purpose of his coming was
 to save all mankind by dying on the cross, could there be any reason
 that he would pray to escape from it?

 This prayer of Jesus was not a selfish or timid prayer, uttered out of
 fear of dying.  If the crucifixion had been the very way for Jesus to
 save mankind, he would gladly have died on the cross thousands of times
 over.  Jesus was beset with anxiety when he thought about his mission as
 the Messiah, which was to realize God's Purpose for the Creation on
 earth.  His heart was so troubled because he knew how sorrowful God
 would feel if the completion of the dispensation for salvation were
 delayed.  Jesus also foresaw the sufferings and bloodshed of his
 disciples and followers, the Christians, who would have to follow his
 path of suffering and the cross.  He also anguished over the troubled
 future that would come to the people of Israel if they rejected him.
 With all of this in mind, in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus uttered a
 last desperate prayer to God, repeatedly pleading that God let him
 remain on earth, even in those hopeless circumstances, so that he could
 continue his mission and change the hearts of the people to the point
 where they would accept him.

 If Jesus' death on the cross was predestined by God, then why did Jesus
 say to Judas Iscariot, his betrayer, "' ... woe to that man by whom the
 Son of man is betrayed!  It would have been better for that man if he
 had not been born'" (Mt 26:24); and how can we explain Jesus' crying out
 on the cross, "' ... My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?'" (Mt
 27:46).  If the crucifixion were truly God's original will for Jesus,
 then Jesus should have felt resounding joy on the cross, having
 successfully completed his mission.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 10:27:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus & Peter         1/

 WC>     I have considered it a number of times, Terry. Why no tell
 WC> us your interpretation and we'll know what you say it means.

           The Extent of Salvation Available through the Cross

 Death on the cross was not the mission that God had originally intended
 for Jesus, his Son.  Rather, it became God's painful secondary
 dispensation necessitated by the faithlessness of the people of Israel.
 What would have happened if all the people of Israel had believed in
 Jesus and had welcomed him, loved him, and united with him?  Most
 certainly, complete salvation would have been realized.  In other words,
 Jesus would have completely established the Kingdom of Heaven on earth,
 the place where the Purpose of the Creation has been realized.  God's
 world would have been realized -- the world in which all people believe
 in and follow the Son of God.  The people of Israel would have become
 the glorious core of heaven.  The Jewish and christian worlds would
 never have been divided, nor would the early christians have had to
 endure any of their terrible sufferings. Furthermore, because the
 Messiah would have completed his mission, there would be no reason for a
 Second Coming.

 Understanding the question of salvation in this light, we can see that
 Jesus' crucifixion was a secondary course of salvation and provided only
 spiritual salvation.  When the people came to the point of completely
 disbelieving Jesus and abandoning him, God had to pay the price for the
 sinful lack of faith of the Israelites and all mankind by giving the
 live of his only Son to Satan as a ransom.  As a result, Satan destroyed
 Jesus' physical body by nailing him to the cross, and Jesus' blood on
 the cross became the price for the redemption of mankind.

 By resurrecting the crucified Jesus, God opened up a way of spiritual
 salvation, a way to a realm free from satanic invasion.  God's victory
 was not the crucifixion, but Jesus' resurrection.  As a result of the
 crucifixion, the physical selves of mankind are still subject to satanic
 invasion, even though they were meant to be saved by man's believing in
 Jesus and being engrafted to him (Rom 11:17).  Only man's spirit can
 attain salvation, by the condition of participating in the resurrection
 through man's belief in the victorious Christ.  Our body still awaits
 redemption (Rom 8:23).

 Thus, even after Jesus' appearance on earth, the world continues to
 suffer under the power of Satan, and sin mercilessly persists in the
 bodies of people everywhere.  The Apostle Paul lamented, "Wretched man
 that I am!  Who will deliver me from this body of death? ... I of myself
 serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of
 sin" (Rom 7:24,25).  As a saint, Paul was devout and in full grace of
 the Lord, but his flesh continued to be oppressed by sin.  This
 confession is not limited to Paul alone, but applies to every person
 alive.  This is the reason that the Bible teaches us to "Pray
 constantly" (1 Thess 5:17) -- To protect us from satanic invasion.
 Also, 1 John 1:10 says, "If we say we have not sinned, we make him a
 liar ...," telling us that mankind is still under the bondage of
 original sin.  There is no one who has been cleansed of original sin.
 It is for this reason that the Messiah must appear again on earth, to
 liquidate our sins completely and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on
 earth, fulfilling God's Purpose for the Creation.

               Two Kinds of Prophecy Concerning the Messiah

 If Jesus' death on the cross was not essential for the fulfillment of
 his messianic purpose, then why did Isaiah 53 predict the Messiah's
 suffering and death?  Here we must remind ourselves that there are also
 verses in the Bible which prophesy that the Messiah will come as the Son
 of God and the King of kings and bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on
 earth.  These prophecies appear in Isaiah 9, 11, and 60, in other verses
 in the Old Testament, and in Luke 1:31-33.

 When God first created man, he created him to grow to perfection only by
 man's completing a share of responsibility.  Man can either accomplish
 his responsibility, as God wants him to do, or to the contrary, he can
 fail to accomplish it.  Accordingly, it was necessary that God give two
 kinds of prophecies regarding the fulfillment of His Will.

 It is God's responsibility to send the Messiah, but it is man's
 responsibility to believe in him.  Unfortunately, by not accepting
 Jesus, the Israelites failed to fulfill their responsibility; they did
 not fulfill God's primary prophecies for the Messiah's coming, which are
 in Isaiah 9, 11, and 60 and Luke 1:31-33, but to the contrary, carried
 out the alternative or secondary prophecy of the suffering Messiah, in
 Isaiah 53.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 10:29:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus & Peter         2/

 WC>     Sadly the effort is doomed to total failure. The way of Rev.
 WC> Moon is not the way of Scripture. The two conflict at nearly
 WC> every point. The bottom line is that the gospel of the Rev. Moon
 WC> is another gospel and we are warned about another gospel in
 WC> Galatians 1:8-9. It was God that set the warning before the
 WC> believer. God does not change nor does He contradict Himself.

 But man sure has developed many mistaken false concepts.  You yourself
 have correctly noted that the beliefs the Jewish people had about the
 Old Testament were in error.   So what makes believers in Christ so
 capable of correctly understanding the New Testament?  You don't even
 agree with other believers in Christ such as the RC who have equal
 access to the Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Scriptures.

 WC>     However, Jesus did not violate the Law of Moses. He did
 WC> violate the laws of men which were added to the Law of Moses.
 WC> However, when Jesus was asked if He were really the Messiah he
 WC> replied, "The blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed,
 WC> the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is
 WC> preached." In the case of the Rev Moon the blind do not see, the
 WC> lame do not walk, lepers are not cleansed, the deaf do not hear
 WC> and the dead are not raised. Yet the claim that he is messiah
 WC> continues.

 He is.  Miracles don't make a Messiah.  If they did then you would be
 following Oral Roberts or Moses.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 10:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Qualification

 PM>     So Moon also forgives sins?

 Finally you figured out what the second coming of Christ is all about.

 PM>     Excuse me, please, I feel ill.

 You should feel very ill.  After the way you have persecuted the one who
 can forgive your sins and bless you in holy matrimony so that your
 children can be born sinless, you should not only be sick but your teeth
 should be gnashing.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 10:38:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO TO B

 TB>   Also, your assertion that all Jewish leaders turned their
 TB> backs on   Christ is not correct.

 So how many of these great leaders did you count on the cross with
 Christ?   I came up with 0.

 TB>  Likewise, at the Second Coming, the new teachings and reformation
      activities of Christ will be opposed by believers who refuse to
      make the effort to reform Christianity, and by the Church, which is
      attached to its traditional authority and rites.

 SH>    This position is not supported by the scriptures.

 LUK 18:8    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
 when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?


 SH> the    exact opposite is stated.  There will be NO DOUBT that
 SH> Christ has    come a Second time.  Christ gave us the signs of
 SH> his return in order    that we may EXAMINE those signs, and look
 SH> for his return.  (Always    prepared - always looking.)

 MAR 8:12    And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this
             generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There
             shall no sign be given unto this generation.

 LUK 17:20   And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom
             of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom
             of God cometh not with observation:

 SH>   There is an important point to be made here, and one that I
 SH> often   forget.  God doesn't care what religion that you belong
 SH> to.  That's   right - you read it right.  He doesn't care.
 SH> There is nothing to   indicate that when a person gets to
 SH> heaven, there is a guide at the   gate saying "Methodists to the
 SH> left, Catholics over with Mary,   Presbyterians in the back,
 SH> etc....."  What is clear is that God is   going to look at US
 SH> and look at OUR heart.  It is not important what   our CHURCH
 SH> believes, but rather what WE believe.  Too often, (and I   am
 SH> guilty of this) we get caught in saying "Oh, you are a <fill in
 SH> blank here>-ian, therefore you are going to hell."

 You are teaching exactly the same thing as Rev. Moon.


 SH> Sitting   is a particular church doesn't mean that you
 SH> are saved any more than   living in a chicken coop makes you a
 SH> chicken.

 Amen,  Preach on brother !

 SH>   All time is unique, and therefore unlike anytime in history.

 MAT 24:37   But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of
             the Son of man be.
 LUK 17:26   And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the
 days of the Son of man. LUK 17:27   They did eat, they drank, they
 married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe
 entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. LUK
 17:28   Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they
 drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; LUK 17:29
 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone
 from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. LUK 17:30 Even thus shall it be
 in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 SH>   At the Second coming, God's will will be known.  His will will
 SH>   manifest itself throughout the world - with or without any
 SH>   individual's help.

 Big big mistake in your analysis.   God ALWAYS works through a central
 figure.  That is why we read about Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Jesus, etc.
 You seem to think God is going to break the only pattern He has ever
 followed and start sending out memos to every single individual.  WRONG.
 It won't happen.  God always calls a man and that man is NEVER popular
 with the people who THINK they are doing the will of God.

 ACS 7:52    Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and
 they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One;
 of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

 SH>   True people of faith need not search for God, as God has
 SH> already   reached out to them.  It is not that we seach for God,
 SH> but rather   that we spend our time ignoring Him.

 Here is your assignment:

 "seek" occurs 244 times in 233 verses.

 Look up those verses, study them, and come back and then tell me that
 people of faith need not search for God.

 SH>   Original mind??  New Age??  <sigh>

 If you could understand the times you are living in you would do
 anything but sigh.  Christ has returned.  It was not as expected, but it
 happened.  You have less than 5 or 10 years remaining to support him
 while he is on earth.  When you miss that opportunity don't blame me.  I
 have really pleaded with you to pray and seek God's guidance.  I should
 have been in the CIS or any country where people are humbly searching
 for the truth.  I could have influenced hundreds, perhaps thousands of
 people to come to God, but I have written over 1 meg of messages in the
 last year alone, spending several hours every day, constantly trying to
 help Christianity in America to wake up and realize their mistake.  I'm
 just about ready to try something different.  It seems that Satan simply
 has too strong a hold over the narrow minded, hard headed, irrational
 people in this conference.  The degree of God's love and truth that I am
 capable of embodying and conveying to you all is simply insufficient to
 break his hold.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 11:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gerard Trigo
Subject    Questions             1/

 GT> compels me to do. If God is truly rational, then he should be
 GT> accessible through rational means. If he is just, then he will
 GT> provide a method by which those whose natures require them to
 GT> look for him in a rational logical fashion will find him. I also
 GT> feel that any book that claims to be
 GT> the word of God should be provable by rational, logical study.

 If you can get Walter to agree with this one point it will probably be
 the biggest surprise of the decade.   You have to understand that the
 UPC movement places no importance, value or credit on the unity of faith
 and reason.  Faith and reason need not be in harmony in Walter's belief
 system.  If you try a rational approach it is exactly like pouring water
 on a ducks back.  The only approach that can penetrate this frame of
 religious reference is to catch them when they are young, before they
 are indoctrinated.   Once a person decides that faith does not need to
 be rational all is lost. God can't even change them, or get them to
 listen.


 Good luck though...

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 11:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Rev Moon

 WC>     Unfortunately some people are so open minded that they
 WC> brains have fallen out. <:-)  I couldn't pass up such an
 WC> opportunity.

 You'll get yours...<grin>

 BTW, a few less brains seems to be an advantage:

 LUK 10:21    In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank
 thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these
 things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes:
 even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

 1CO 1:27    But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to
 confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to
 confound the things which are mighty;

 ISA 5:21    Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent
 in their own sight!

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 11:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Second Advent

 WC> TB> Then how will the Second Coming of Christ take place?
 WC> TB> In considering this, let us first look at the second coming
 WC> of TB> Elijah.
 WC>
 WC>     It is a total waste of time to look at Elijah to determine
 WC> how the Second Advent of Jesus will occur. The Scripture gives
 WC> considera- ble detail about the Second Coming of Jesus. This is
 WC> not the case of Elijah.

 For people who already know it all, it is rather difficult to consider
 they may have made a mistake.  There is only one instance in history
 where the second coming of anyone has occurred.  Tell me one rational
 reason we should ignore that pattern, model and example when we consider
 how another person's second coming will take place?

 WC> TB> In fact, the second coming of Elijah is the clearest example
 WC> that TB> God has given us related to how Christ will come again.
 WC>
 WC>     Nope. They are not related. The Scripture tell us how Jesus
 WC> will return and under what circumstances the event will occur.

 Your narrow mindedness and irrational thinking is clearly showing.

 WC> TB> Yet, Jesus clearly declared that John the Baptist, who was
 WC> born TB> on earth, was Elijah (Mt 11:14; 17:13).
 WC>
 WC>     John the Baptist was not a reincarnation of Elijah. John
 WC> even said that he was not Elijah. If John were Elijah then God
 WC> never al- lowed that knowledge to be in John's mind.

 You don't seem to like what Jesus said?  When your faith contradicts
 Jesus you need to change it.  Jesus said the the second coming of Elijah
 was fulfilled through the birth of John the Baptist.   Jesus did not
 mention reincarnation, and neither have I.  John came to fulfill the
 second coming of Elijah through taking over Elijah's mission to make
 straight the way of the Lord.  That is a simple enough concept for even
 children to understand.  That is also the same concept we mush have to
 consider when we look for the second coming of Christ.

 WC> TB> However, that the second coming of Elijah took place through
 WC> John TB> the Baptist does not mean that Elijah, himself, was
 WC> born again as TB> John the Baptist.
 WC>
 WC>     There is no other possibility. Either John was Elijah or he
 WC> was not. The Bible does not teach reincarnation. Therefore, John
 WC> was not Elijah.

 Jesus said that John is Elijah so there must be another possibility.  It
 is clear when we read LUK 1:17: "And he shall go before him in the
 spirit and power of Elias,"    ...John came with the same mission of
 Elijah therefore John was born to fulfill the second coming of Elijah.

 WC> TB>  Elijah was in the spirit world, helping John the Baptist

 WC>     Nope. That is what the New Agers believe. The dead do not
 WC> commu- nicate with the living. Scripture calls such practices
 WC> necromancy and says that it is an abomination to God.

 So why do you believe that the Lord will return with his heavenly army?
 The spiritual world will announce the return of Christ, that is why
 those of us who have had the spiritual experiences like St. Paul did,
 are the ones who know the times we are living in now.  Do you think I
 found out that Rev. Moon was the second coming of Christ because I read
 it in a book, or because someone told me "look there"?

 2TH 1:7     And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord
 Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

 "Revealed from heaven"  means from the spiritual world.

 Notice the prophecy in Acts that supports this concept of revelations at
 the last days:
 ACS 2:17    And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I
 will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your
 daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your
 old men shall dream dreams:
 Now, you can sit back and philosophize that the revelations that Rev.
 Moon and myself, AND millions of UC members had all came from the devil
 but I would strongly suggest you get to know the man before you firm up
 your conclusion.
 WC>     Not hardly. It would violate the word of God and as a result
 WC> God would be a liar. Scripture says that Jesus ascended in
 WC> literal clouds. It also says in more than one place that He will
 WC> come back in clouds.
 Clouds are purified water.  A weather man should know that.  And what is
 water?   Glad you asked:
 REV 17:15   And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where
 the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and
 tongues.
 WC>     Scripture certainly has a way of refuting the Divine
 WC> Principle, doesn't it, Terry. You want us to believe that the
 WC> Jewish leadership did not know that Messiah would come as a baby
 WC> on the first advent.
 Why don't you find anyone of the Jewish faith and ask them how many
 times the Messiah is supposed to come.  You seem to be an authority on
 their faith, yet you don't even know that they don't expect the Messiah
 to come twice.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 12:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Whose Hope?           1/

 WC> TB> God's First Blessing is man's ability to perfect his
 WC> character.
 WC>     Where does it say or teach this in Scripture?

 MAT 5:48    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in
 heaven is perfect.

 WC> It is not of God. No one with a sin nature has the capability of
 WC> uniting his mind and body centered in God. He can only do that
 WC> in the power of the Holy Spirit. Neither does any such thing as
 WC> you have said make one the temple of God. That is only possible
 WC> because Jesus shed His blood on the cross. It can happen only
 WC> when one is born again as the Scripture saith.

 I agree that we need Christ.

 WC> TB> Thus, it would be absolutely impossible for such a person to
 WC> TB> commit a crime
 WC>
 WC>     Not according to what Scripture has to say on the subject.
 WC> One can turn away from God any time they choose to do so. He
 WC> will not force them to say against their will.

 True love takes away the freedom to sin.  If you truly loved someone how
 could possibly do anything to hurt them?   Sin hurts God.

 WC>     It is not a possibility for an individual to become perfect
 WC> as you have defined it. It will never happen in this life time.

 HEB 13:21   Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working
 in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to
 whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 WC> TB> By becoming husband and wife on the foundation of having
 WC> perfect- TB> ed themselves through God's vertical love, Adam and
 WC> Eve would TB> have completely realized God's horizontal love.
 WC>
 WC>     I Corinthians 7 certainly tells a different story on the
 WC> subject of marriage. Marriage is not necessary for God's love.
 WC> God has contra- dicted you at every step. He certainly gave
 WC> instruction regulating marriage relationships but He nowhere
 WC> ties marriage with salvation.

 Finally you have heard the new words of truth that Jesus promised would
 be revealed in the last days.  I find it strange you would have such
 difficulty believing something that is easily understood with just a
 little tad of common sense.   What happened to common sense?   The Bible
 wasn't written to replace common sense.  Where did you go wrong?

 WC>     Nope. Simple observation tells us that God's "horizontal
 WC> love" is not necessary for having children.

 True, you can have children as a result of practicing Satanic love.  The
 Good Book calls this fornication and adultery.  Who wants that kind of
 child?

 WC> TB> If Adam and Eve had attained perfection
 WC>
 WC>     They did not have to attain it, Terry. They were created
 WC> that way. They did not have to work to attain perfection. Rather
 WC> they LOST perfection when they sinned.

 First, COMMON SENSE.   NO one who was one heart with God would do
 anything to sever that relationship.  Perfect people don't do imperfect
 things.  Adam and were not perfect when they sinned.

 WC>
 WC> TB> True Parents and True Ancestors of all mankind, establishing
 WC> the
 WC>     The Scripture do not define "true parents" as do you. True
 WC> par- ents are defined as those who beget and bear children--No
 WC> more, no less.

 I can tell you don't know much about the True Parents.  True parents are
 God, the same way you think Christ was God, except True Parents are the
 FULL manifestation of God, not just the single male version.

 WC>     The basic unit of the Kingdom of Heaven is NOT the family.

 It is now.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 16:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Children

 WC> TB> It's not necessary to use Strong's Concordance or Greek or
 WC> any TB> language other than prayer.
 WC>
 WC>     Then you are doomed forever to know what God speaks. If you
 WC> expect Him to speak the Bible to you as a result of prayer you
 WC> will pray until you die and nothing will happen.

      Critical Warning!     Critical Warning!     Critical Warning!

 You have made a critical error!  You don't need any Bible in order to
 contact God, to hear Him speak, or to receive salvation.  Adam and Eve
 talked to God and heard Him talking to them, and they had no Bible.
 Moses had no Bible and yet he talked to God ...in fact many believe
 Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible.  Do you think Jesus'
 followers communicated with God?  Did you know they did not know
 scripture.  The were Biblical illiterate.

 Did you know I have found God, and it was not a result of reading
 scripture, it was a result of knocking on the door in prayer.  I
 honestly believe you can communicate with God the same way.  I don't
 think you have tried it or you could never have made such a comment
 saying that "we are doomed forever" if we don't have bibles to read.  I
 can assure you that people who are living in God's direct dominion of
 love will need no bibles.  Such religious paraphernalia is only a
 temporary aid to assist man while in a fallen state.  Had there been no
 fall there would not have been any such thing as religion and all the
 literature associated with it.

 WC> You will have
 WC> to read it. somewhere along the line you will need to know the
 WC> original flavor of the words used. Unless you are a scholar of
 WC> Greek and Hebrew you will have to use the works of these who
 WC> are. The English language changes with time. It is necessary to
 WC> go back to the original definitions to understand what is meant.

 I can assure you that speaking Greek and Hebrew is not even important to
 be able to communicate with God.  You need to speak Korean.  Everyone
 knows this... well except christians.

 Walter of all the claims you have made, this idea of the necessity of
 some written word is one of those farthest off base.  You and I know
 that if truth alone would save anyone, you would be a moonie by now. You
 have been saturated by the truth of the Divine Principle, yet you
 haven't experienced the love of True Parents so you can't believe a word
 of it.   By the same token, you can preach Jesus and the Bible all your
 life and never convince anyone that there is a word of truth in your
 message if you cannot demonstrate the love of Christ in a way that they
 can experience it.

 WC>     This issue will not resolve the one were you say that Jesus
 WC> was a failure in His mission as was John the Baptist.

 You should not accuse Jesus of failing when it was the fault and
 responsibility of the chosen people to support him that caused the
 establishment of kingdom of God to be delayed.

 WC> TB> Well, clearly Jesus said that "NO SIGN SHALL BE GIVEN UNTO
 WC> YOU." TB> So stop looking in the sky. You are wasting your time.
 WC>
 WC>     Sorry to pop your theological bubble, Terry, but the "sign"
 WC> will be the actuality of the event. I will not just see the sign
 WC> but will be a part of it. The dead in Christ will rise first
 WC> then those who are alive will be caught up to meet with Him in
 WC> the air and thus be with Him forever. No, I am not wasting my
 WC> time. Jesus clearly was speaking to the Jews of His time.
 WC> Scripture clearly says that there will be signs and wonders.

 Walter, this is a SPIRITUAL PHENOMENA.  NOT something that can be
 perceived and reported on the 6 O'clock news.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 16:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ken Wiens
Subject    Christology           2/

 KW> The definitions of Being and Persons are different. God is a
 KW> complex Being.

 Yes, but so is man.  If man can't understand his creator then we really
 aren't created in His image.  Do you believe we are in the image of God?
 What do you think that means?  Does God have the physical
 characteristics that He gave man, or is it the internal qualities that
 cause us to seek truth beauty and love?

 KW> The Bible does say Jesus Christ is God (John
 KW> 1:1-3; Colossians 1:15ff., for example). The Bible does call the
 KW> Holy Spirit God (see Acts  5.). But the Bible also says there is
 KW> only One God. So how are the  passages that say there is only
 KW> One God and the passages that say Jesus  Christ and the Holy
 KW> Spirit of God reconciled? By seeing that God is One  Being made
 KW> up of Three Persons. And there is no reason that anyone should
 KW> be expected to be able to understand the Nature of God fully by
 KW> rational  means. God is bigger than that.

 God is big alright, but certainly no bigger that the human mind. The
 human mind is infinite you can't get any bigger than that. I can imagine
 my self doing anything, even flying like a spaceship, all the way past
 Pluto.

 Back to the trinity concept...  it is clear to me that God is a person
 of the trinity. That person is God the Father.  So the trinity does not
 equal God because it includes God's son and the Holy Spirit.  If you
 really care to see my point of view, you can consider these verses:

 JOH 17:3    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only
             true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 MAR 13:32   But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the
             angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 JOH 4:24    God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
             [him] in spirit and in truth.

 JOH 8:54    Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing:
             it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he
             is your God:

 1TI 2:5     For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and
             men, the man Christ Jesus;

 COL 3:1     If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which
             are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

 JOH 5:19    Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I
             say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what
             he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth,
             these also doeth the Son likewise.

 1JO 4:14    And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the
             Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.

 2JO 1:9     Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine
             of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine
             of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 GEN 1:27    So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God
             created he him; male and female created he them.

 2CO 4:4     In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of
             them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious
             gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine
             unto them.

 KW> If you are referring to Sun Myung Moon you are referring to a
 KW> false  prophet and a liar. The man does not consider Jesus
 ...

 You better mind your tongue.  Those who call the second coming of Christ
 a liar will be wailing and gnashing their teeth someday.  Spare yourself
 the agony.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 16:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Gravity

 WC>     No such condition exists, Terry. It is a misnomer. Gravity
 WC> is associated with every piece of mass in the universe down to
 WC> the small- est size. Weight is nothing more than the
 WC> gravitational force on body exerts on another. If the two bodies
 WC> are free to orbit each other then the other forces come into
 WC> play. Thus an accelerometer in free fall would not register a
 WC> force even though one was acting upon it.

 Then you should know that people aren't going to become weightless when
 the second coming of Christ takes place.  Wheww, I'm finally glad we got
 that old rapture myth settled.

 WC>     Messiah is God's Son because He is God manifested in human
 WC> flesh.

 God is His son?  Hu?  Is that what you said?  Why can't you just include
 a small dose of rational thinking in your doctrine?

 WC> TB> Thus it is heavenly law that giving precedes receiving.
 WC> However, TB> fallen man fails to return even after he receives
 WC>
 WC>     Not all do this, Terry. Some are redeemed and are in right
 WC> stand- ing with God.

 Yes, and they are called "saints" and out of the 25 billion people that
 have lived on the earth, they make up about about 100 of them. Still no
 two saints have parented sinless children.∙ I see plenty room to
 improve even in their relationship with God.

 WC> TB> Jesus came to serve mankind with love and sacrifice:
 WC> "'...the Son TB> of man came not to be served, but to
 WC> serve...'"(Mt 20:28).
 WC>     This is correct. Jesus served. He also served by going to
 WC> the cross. That is why the Bible calls Him the Lamb of God slain
 WC> from the foundation of the world.

 Jesus was slain because of the faithlessness of the chosen people:

 MAT 26:45∙Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep
 on now, and take [your] rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son
 of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. MAR 14:41   And he cometh
 the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take [your] rest:
 it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into
 the hands of sinners.

 If it was the will of God that Jesus be betrayed into the hands of
 sinners, surely the one who did this would be a hero, for without him
 there would be no salvation for anyone.  But this is surely not what
 Jesus said:

 MAR 14:21   The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but
 woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for
 that man if he had never been born.

 Walter, just one once of rational, logical thinking could recognize this
 truth.

 WC>     And excellent use of extra-biblical terms to describe extra-
 WC> biblical theology.

 How nice coming from one who specializes in terms like "oneness" and
 places their entire belief on such a non-biblical concept.

 WC> TB> The step prior to Give and Take Action is that of
 WC> establishing a TB> reciprocal base.
 WC>
 WC>     The first step in anything with God is repentance. That is
 WC> the only basis that exists for approaching God.

 Why would one want to repent if they had no common base with God?  You
 don't see people who could care less about God doing any repenting do
 you?

 WC> TB> It is possible when the subject and object put priority on
 WC> the TB> purpose for the whole rather than on their individual
 WC> purposes.
 WC>     Nope. This is another gospel which the believer is warned of
 WC> in Galatians 1:8-9. The first priority is repentance.

 Wake up Walter!  I'm only trying to show you exactly what it is you
 should be repenting for.  Seems you think that just saying "I repent" is
 sufficient.  Repentance means to change, not merely mumble some mumbo
 jumbo magic words.  What do you need to change?  That is what you need
 to repent for.   Jesus said he came to save sinners.  Get it?

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 17:15:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Gravity

 WC> where the gospel places it then there is nothing the individual
 WC> need do but follow a few rules. The Scripture calls it living by
 WC> the law.

 Walter,  you don't play fair.  If I had said this you would have jumped
 on me with a 101 keyboard, saying that I was preaching salvation by
 works.

 WC> It is an
 WC> impossibility for any man to ever earn salvation. It would no
 WC> longer be grace. A person would definitely have something about
 WC> which to brag and be vain.

 You are totally inconsistent.  One paragraph you say that man needs to
 follow the rules, then in the next you say if man did anything it would
 no longer be grace.   Why can't you see this contradiction in your
 doctrine?   Do I have some kind of special gift to see a contradiction
 that you aren't aware of?

 WC> TB> I'm doing everything I can to eliminate the name Sysop from
 WC> my TB> bbs.
 WC>
 WC>     Terry, the day this mail packet was downloaded the were 11
 WC> of your messages which were sent under SYSOP. You will probably
 WC> catch some flack about it before it is over.

 Yes,  I'm still trying to solve this riddle.  I'm going to stop right
 now and export these messages and see if they are from sysop.  I thought
 I had it corrected.  Thanks for telling me.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 17:31:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Holiness

 WC> TB> You say Jesus is not dead and he is filled with love.  I
 WC> don't TB> disagree, but Jesus isn't solving the aids crisis
 WC> through healing TB> miracles, does that make Jesus a false
 WC> Messiah? How about Ref. TB> Moon?  I would say "no" to both
 WC> questions.
 WC>     What I hear you saying, Terry, is that Jesus is not doing
 WC> things according to the way you want them done therefore God's

 NO, you missed the point.  I was saying that Rev. Moon doesn't seem to
 be doing things according to the way you want them done, so I'm asking
 you why isn't Jesus doing these things you want to see Rev. Moon do?

 WC> are not such promises of healing for the unbeliever. God is
 WC> sovereign and can do as He pleases.

 God can't violate His own laws. And God can't force anyone to love Him.

 WC>     When Jesus was on the earth He demonstrated His love and
 WC> compas- sion for the sick and afflicted by healing them. The Rev
 WC> Moon is on the earth claiming to be a messiah. However, he has
 WC> yet to demonstrate the same love and compassion which Jesus
 WC> possessed by healing the sick and afflicted.

 So you don't like the way Rev. Moon is fulfilling the mission of the
 second coming of Christ.  People were equally dissatisfied with the way
 Jesus ran his campaign, but whether or not you vote for either Jesus or
 Rev. Moon, God has already cast His ballot.  You can either support
 God's choices or you can work for the opposition.  It is my hope you
 will not support the oppositions.

 WC>     And yet Messiah Jesus healed them without regard to the
 WC> condition of their heart. That certainly seems to be an
 WC> attribute of Messiah. Why does not the Rev. Moon do the same
 WC> since he claims to a messiah?

 If I told you, you would not believe me.  But I will give you a hint.
 Luke 8:46

 WC> TB> Still you don't blame Jesus Christ for a lack of compassion.
 WC>
 WC>     This is correct. Jesus headed the bodies of the people
 WC> regardless of the condition of their hearts. He also taught them
 WC> to change their hearts. Jesus did both.

 Why isn't Jesus doing this now?   Why does the aids problem exist if
 Jesus has the compassion and ability to resolve this problem?

 WC> TB> Do you "please" to continue to doing your UPC thing?  Or can
 WC> you TB> find a way to understand my faith?
 WC>
 WC>     I understand your faith, Terry. I have understood it for
 WC> some time now. You give me the impression that you are equating
 WC> understand- ing with the embracing of it. I do understand your
 WC> position but find it is contradicted at virtually all points by
 WC> Scripture.

 Since you understand my faith, what would I have to say to this
 statement you just made?

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 17:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Perfect               1/

 WC>     That which God created as perfect can fall.

 But if God had created man perfect, He would have no need to have given
 him the commandment.  Something perfect doesn't need rules to follow.

 WC> TB> Can God be tempted?
 WC>
 WC>     Scripture says that God cannot be tempted.

 Is it because God is perfect?  Why?  Why can't a being/person who has
 reached perfection be tempted?

 WC>     There you go again. Insisting that I do not understand the
 WC> mean- ing of resurrection when you are unwilling to go to a
 WC> Strong's Con- cordance and look up the meaning.

 Strong doesn't know either!  People who understand the meaning of
 resurrection are members of the UC. ..Not UPC!

 WC> 386. anastasis, an-as'-tas-is; from G450; a standing up again,
 WC> i.e. (lit.) a resurrection from death (individual, gen. or by
 WC> impl. [its author]), or (fig.) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual
 WC> truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead,
 WC> that should rise, rising again.

 See, you think death is referring to physical death but that is
 incorrect.  LUK 9:60    Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their
 dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.   If you think
 resurrection means to recover from physical death, but this is
 incorrect.  REV 3:1     And unto the angel of the church in Sardis
 write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the
 seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest,
 and art dead.

 WC>     The word can mean raised from to life from death. The
 WC> translators of the Bible correctly translated the word.

 1JO 3:14    We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we
 love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.

 JOH 5:24    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and
             believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and
             shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death
             unto life.

 No where is is it taught that you must die in order to be resurrected.
 In fact living people can be resurrected, so physical life and death
 does not have anything to do with resurrection.

 WC>     That is what Jesus told the Jews of His time. What give you
 WC> the authority to apply that verse to today?

 Humm, I thought you told me the Bible was eternal and unchanging?  Do I
 detect a change in your faith?

 WC> Why did you chose to
 WC> cite Mark 8:12 rather than Matthew 12:39.

 Because I selected the scripture that was relevant to the topic.

 WC> Is it that you needed
 WC> verse that would allow you to take it out of context to support
 WC> your position. Matthew 12:39 gives a different view to your
 WC> position without contradicting Mark 8:12. You even overlooked a
 WC> vital part of your own passage. It says "There shall no sign be
 WC> given unto THIS generation." That was the generation to which
 WC> Jesus was speaking.

 I thought you said the Bible was still true for our times?

 WC> Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and
 WC> adulter- ous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no
 WC> sign be given to it, BUT THE SIGN OF THE PROPHET JONAS:

 Rev. Moon has been preaching that fallen man must repent... let's look
 up Jonas just to make sure what he was preaching:

 ...well scripture seems to be vague, only saying that Jonah "cried out"
 ...but based on the response of the people, we can safely assume that
 Jonah was calling for then to repent, just as Rev. Moon has been doing:

 JON 3:10     And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil
 way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do
 unto them; and he did [it] not.

 WC>     However, I have already posted you a number of Scripture
 WC> which clearly say that there WILL be signs and wonders
 WC> concerning the Second Advent. You have not addressed these
 WC> passages.

 Walter, Walter,  you know that isn't true.  Who taught you, from
 scripture, that the second coming of the Lord will take place as a thief
 in the night, without observation?   These signs and wonders you seek
 are only perceivable with spiritual proscriptions.  If this were not
 true one would not need to pray to know the signs of the times.  We
 could simply catch it on the evening news.  Who knows, they may even
 break into a prime time tv show and make the announcement before the
 station break.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 18:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Perfect               2/

 WC>     Genesis chapter 5 gives a list of true parents.

 Gen 5 begins with Adam who was the first fallen parent, who by the way
 brought sin into the world.  How can you give him the honor of the title
 of True Parent?  You obviously don't know what the True Parents are.

 WC> found in Matthew 1:1-16. The other is Luke 3:23-38. They are
 WC> parents because God said they were. QED.

 The Messiah and his bride are the True Parents.  Jesus could have become
 the True parent, but unfortunately he was murdered.  So he did not
 marry and become a father.  Until 1960 the world and God were waiting on
 the arrival of True Parents.


 WC> TB> So what, you still haven't found the feminine part of God in
 WC> TB> Jesus. Where is true woman, true mother, true eve, true
 WC> bride?

 WC>     So you advocate....

 Don't worry about what I advocate, answer the question.  Where is true
 woman, true mother, true Eve and true bride?


 WC> Yet you have yet to cite a single Scripture
 WC> where God is referred to as anything other than masculine.

 And guess what, my wife still gets mail addressed to the head of the
 house.... me!  Why do you suppose a woman takes the family name of the
 man when they marry?   You simply are seeking answers to to the
 fundamental question of subject object relationship.  When you discover
 the answer, you will know why God is referred to as "He."


 WC> TB> Jesus God + God  = 2 gods... but there is only one God.
 WC>
 WC>     Your equation demonstrates that you are lacking in math.
 WC>
 WC>     Jesus = God = one God.

 Your formula demonstrates lack of understanding scripture ( or simply
 ignoring them ) that says "both," when they talk about Jesus and God.
 And you forgot that God is greater than Jesus:  JOH 14:28 ...for my
 Father is greater than I.   Here is the way Jesus explained it:

 Jesus < God

 God = the Father

 WC> TB> I thought you said you were a mathematician?

 ha ha   nice try, but I'm a mathematician too.  That was my minor in
 college.  I can tell you that greater than does not mean equal to.
 Things must have changed since you graduated.

 WC> TB> How can 1 + 1 = 1 ?
 WC>
 WC>     Wrong equation again, Terry. 1 = 1 = 1 = 1 =...
 WC>
 WC>     They are not plus but identical (equals sign not plus sign).

 The word "both" implies two.  Is Walter both?

 WC>     You have already admitted that Scripture says that Jesus is
 WC> the LAST Adam. That being so how can there be a third? You have
 WC> only to quote us the Scripture which says there will be a third
 WC> Adam and lay the issue to rest.

 Read it and believe it:

 JOH 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 19:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Position              1/

 WC>     But, I do understand your position, Terry. I just do not
 WC> agree with it because it is not scriptural.

 How can you make such a statement, knowing full well that it is not
 scripture we disagree on, rather the interpretation of scripture?

 WC>     Terry, you have repeatedly stated that it was not the
 WC> purpose of Jesus to shed His blood and die for the sins of man.

 Yes, this is my belief.

 WC> In this you are incorrect. There many prophecies which tell us
 WC> about His suffering and death. None of these prophecies have an
 WC> IF clause in them.

 All prophecies have an "IF" clause ...IF man has free will.  Does man
 have free will?   If man has free will then we can either obey God and
 fulfill our responsibility or we can disobey God and fail our
 responsibility.   Does man have free will?

 ...many prophecies omitted for brevity.

 WC>     Terry, all these prophecies point to the events of Calvary.
 WC> They all happened exactly as God said they would happen. They
 WC> were all for the First Advent.

 I clearly know about these prophecies and probably about some you didn't
 even mention.  That is not the question.  The question is: Did God
 prepare the nation of Israel to believe in His son or to betray His son?
 Did God give John the Baptist and others the revelation that Jesus was
 His son so they would be sure they murdered the right person?   I think
 not.  Clearly God prepared a nation for the purpose of supporting His
 son.  Clearly God gave revelations to many people in order to personally
 witness to them about who Jesus was, in order that they would have faith
 in Jesus, not so they would murder him.    All those prophecies you
 mentioned are simply predictions of what might happen "IF" Jesus was
 rejected.    We find opposite prophecies of what might happen "IF" Jesus
 was received with faith.   The only way you can squirm out of admitting
 this fact is to invent the concept that Jesus came to die and then twist
 the prophecies of Jesus coming as King of Kings to say that they were
 predicting two comings.   This is incorrect.  All prophecies are dual in
 nature.  The identical prophecies were made about Nineveh as those
 about Sodom.  However we find that one line of prophecy of destruction
 was fulfilled with Sodom while the opposite prophecy was fulfilled with
 the Nineveh.

 When you look for the reason Jesus came, you can find scriptures that
 say he came that we may have life, and he came to do away with the work
 of the devil.  We also find that Jesus Christ had the power on earth to
 forgive sins. Why would a person need to die in order to do something he
 could already do while living?  There is no rational for such a concept.

 There are two reasons why you can't understand what I have sharing with
 you.  1.  You refuse to use rational thinking.  2.  You don't break
 through in prayer and listen to the quiet voice inside your heart to
 give you the direction to follow.    And probably a third reason:  You
 are afraid that if you do find I am right you will have to do the right
 thing and follow Rev. Moon.    Well, you would be right about that.  I
 won't let the fear of persecution that comes from selling peanuts to
 make money to teach Rev. Moons revelation keep me out of heaven.  If
 Rev. Moon is the Messiah do you have any idea the value those peanuts
 would have?  I would bet that in 10,000 years one small bag would be
 worth the whole state of Texas, probably the whole USA. I wish I still
 had a bag. But alas, I sold them all.

 WC>     That is exactly correct, Terry. One set of prophecies
 WC> concerned the First Advent. The other concerns the Second
 WC> Advent. Both are correct. The first were fulfilled with the
 WC> First Advent. The others will be fulfilled at the Second Advent.

 I only wish you could see how you twist the scripture.  Would you ask
 God about this?

 WC>     They were exactly fulfilling prophecy, Terry. God prophesied
 WC> their reactions to Jesus. He was 100% correct in every aspect.

 You know they did not  fulfill the King of Kings prophecies.  Tell me
 why if these are about two comings of Christ, the one about his murder
 had to be the first. How do you determine that Jesus suffering should
 preceded glory?

 WC> TB> Why does God need a blood atonement?  Why can't God show man
 WC> the TB> way of salvation without the murder of an innocent man?
 WC>
 WC>     Because that is the way God chose to do it. It graphically
 WC> demon- strates that sin brings suffering and death to the
 WC> innocent. God is Sovereign. He is the one that made the
 WC> decision. The opinion of no human was sought or needed. We are
 WC> the created not the Creator.

 God proved at the offering of Isaac that He did not want human
 sacrifices.  Are you saying that God changes His mind?

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 19:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Position              2/

 WC> TB> This is where our belief's are opposite.  I believe that God
 WC> gave TB> man freedom and does not know if man will respond with
 WC> love and TB> obedience or hatred and rebellion.
 WC>
 WC>     My position is entirely scriptural. Psalm 139:1-6 teaches us
 WC> that God knows everything, including our movements, thought,
 WC> paths, ways, and words.

 But other scriptures speak of God, or the Lord, being pleased by man's
 thoughts, actions, speeches, etc.  Rational thinking can only lead us to
 understand that if God already knows the outcome then there could be
 nothing pleasing or sorrowful in the situation. God knows the
 possibilities, but since He gave man TRUE freedom, He does not know the
 outcome.

 WC> TB> God not only told us what he would do but he showed us what
 WC> he TB> would do by His example of the second coming of Elijah.
 WC> Do you TB> know how the second coming of Elijah was fulfilled?
 WC>
 WC>     The "second coming" of Elijah is immaterial in relation to
 WC> how Jesus will return.

 There is only one person who returned and you say that event in
 immaterial?  I can't believe you always throw ration and reason to the
 wind. God's method of sending Elijah the second time is the only example
 we have of how the Messiah may appear the second time.  At a minimum, we
 have to consider how the second coming of Elijah was fulfilled.

 WC> ignored and brushed aside the prophecies about the Second Advent
 WC> of Jesus. Where they contradict your belief you force a new
 WC> meaning to the passages that is unwarranted by context and by
 WC> other Scripture.

 It is your belief that is suffering from the clear example of how the
 second coming of anyone is fulfilled.  You can't ignore the return of
 Elijah.  It happened and his return clearly contradicts your dogma.

 WC> WC> The children of Adam and Eve were not born of Eve committing
 WC> WC> adultery with Satan.
 WC>
 WC> TB> Correct,  I can't begin to count the number of time I have
 WC> told TB> you that the fornication of Eve and Lucifer could not
 WC> possibly TB> bear children.
 WC>
 WC>     You say this and then in the same breath you quote John 8:44
 WC> as text proof that the children she bore were fathered by Satan.

 Please just listen once more:  The motivation, yes MOTIVATION, for the
 birth of fallen man is IMPURE SATANIC LOVE FROM LUCIFER. That is why
 Satan is the father of fallen man.  The "father of" means founder.
 George Washington was the "father of" our country.  That does not mean
 he fathered all the citizens... dose it?   Why you can't understand this
 is beyond me.  Satan did not get Eve pregnant when they fornicated, but
 he did "infect" her with a bad motivation, fallen love, that became the
 father of mankind after Eve passed it on to Adam.

 WC> TB> When Eve fornicated with Lucifer in the garden of Eden
 WC>
 WC>     There is absolutely no Scripture which says that Eve
 WC> fornicated with Satan in the garden or anywhere else at any
 WC> time.

 I know. You think Satan tole me he fornicated with Eve.  I'm still
 laughing about that one.  How you could assume that Satan would repent
 or confess to fornication is your wildest story, even wilder than that
 idea about floating away from earth's gravitational forces.

 WC> TB> at the fall of man, she did NOT become pregnant.
 WC>
 WC>     That's because she did not have sexual intercourse with
 WC> Satan.
 WC> TB> I'll say it again: When Eve fornicated with Lucifer she did
 WC> NOT, TB> and could NOT become pregnant.
 WC>
 WC>     That is because she did not have sexual intercourse with
 WC> Satan. Such an concept is not found in Scripture.

 I told you that Satan kept it a secret.  But his sin is exposed now
 because the dragon has been slayed with the breath of the lips of an
 oriental man named Rev. Sun Myung Moon.


 WC> TB> Spiritual sperm, if there is such a thing, cannot get a
 WC> physical TB> woman pregnant.
 WC>
 WC>     That is because there is no such thing as spiritual sperm.
 WC> Spir- its are not matter.

 I agree with you that there are no spiritual sperm, but for a man who
 has cast out as many spirits and demons as you, how can you say they are
 non existent?  They would have to exist in order to be removed... or is
 this another God + Jesus = 1 thing where only those with UPC glasses can
 see?

 WC>     A sexual act with Satan would not open their eyes and make
 WC> them aware that they were naked. How did they come about such
 WC> knowledge through sexual intercourse.

 Think about what you just said.   If you sin, you want to cover what you
 sin with:
 JBO 31:33   If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine
 iniquity in my bosom:

 WC> TB> What Adam hid was not his face.
 WC>
 WC>     What they initially hid was their entire bodies and that
 WC> included their faces.

 So why didn't God tell Abraham to circumcise his nose?

 WC> Certainly the New Jerusalem is a city and a city is composed of
 WC> people. However even given that the saints will live in the New
 WC> Jerusalem the context of the passage show that it is the
 WC> cooperate and not the individual that is to be the bride. It is
 WC> the city (people) that is the bride.

 Well, just remember you heard it from me first.  At the second coming of
 Christ, the Messiah will marry a real living woman, and not some
 mythical institution.  She will give birth to sinless children.  And
 that will be the be the first generation of God's grandchildren.  And
 also remember you heard it from me first that this has taken place
 during your life on earth.  You were there then and Terry Blount told
 you about it.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 20:16:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Dean Scott
Subject    Spirit

 DS> Of course your God can't possible recreate the phyical elements
 DS> of one's decayed and/or redispostioned body, so that He can
 DS> redeposit that person's life-energy/consciousness back into
 DS> him, right?  And what's this about a dead body being
 DS> 'repossessed' by demons?  Now whose been seeing to many "Night
 DS> of The Living Dead' movies?

 Please send this message to Walter Copes.  He is lost in some science
 fiction interpretation of scripture and thinks that God is going to
 gather the decomposed pieces of his skin and put them together for a
 flight to Mars with Jesus.   He hasn't figure out the part where a
 believer fell off a ship and was eaten by fish that were in turn caught
 by fishermen and fed to other believers.   When he figures out how God
 is going to sort out this identity crisis I'll be anxiously waiting to
 hear it.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 20:24:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    WORKS

 RH> Trun from moon and turn to God.
 RH> and give up yourself effert.

 I can't because the Moon is the Son.

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 20:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    WORKS

 RH> ->  Do you interpret this to be saying that it is up to God to
 RH> initiate ->  repentance.  It sure looks like that is your
 RH> belief. How can God rep ->  for man?  You are placing all
 RH> responsibility and accountability on G ->  This is purely an
 RH> escape from your portion of responsibility. ->
 RH>
 RH> God must change you heart are you could not repent.

 So if my heart is not changed then I have a valid excuse for not
 repenting?  I really don't believe that is your position.  If this heart
 changing was a prerequisite for repentance then how do you explain that
 God changed the hearts of the people of Nineveh and not Sodom and
 Gomorrah?   How could a just God judge Sodom when it was His fault that
 they did not repent?

 RH> I have changed but it not me ding the changing its God.
 RH> I no longer love the thing I love before because God has changed
 RH> my Heart.

 The relationship between God and man is not supposed to be master
 slave. God created us to be His children.  The only way God could
 experience infinite joy with His children is to make them equal.  A
 person who has attained perfection is equal in value to God.  Without a
 perfect object, God cannot be a perfect subject.  Do you understand
 this?

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Conference 14
Date       04-29-92 20:31:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    WORKS

 RH> God is going to change hearts. In other words He going to change
 RH> your wants to's  The thing you use to love are now the thing you
 RH> hate and thing you use to hate are the thing you now love

 I cannot deny that God will play a major part, but still I would like
 for someone to just tell me why God has been waiting for thousands of
 years while His children were suffering if the responsibility for
 restoration were all on His sholders.

 RH> ->  RH> God said he going to purify me.
 RH> ->
 RH> ->  Only if you overcome temptation and follow His commandments.
 RH> You st ->  can't see that you must wash your own robes.
 RH> ->
 RH> If your sin are as dark as scarlet He will make them white as
 RH> snow
 RH> Trust in God not in works, and the works will follow.

 Pleas consider this scriptures:

 REV 2:7     He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
 the churches; TO HIM THAT OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the tree of
 life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. REV 2:11    He that
 hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He
 THAT OVERCOMETH shall not be hurt of the second death. REV 2:17    He
 that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
 TO HIM THAT OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will
 give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no
 man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it]. REV 2:26    And he THAT
 OVERCOMETH, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power
 over the nations: REV 3:5     He THAT OVERCOMETH, the same shall be
 clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the
 book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before
 his angels. REV 3:12    Him THAT OVERCOMETH will I make a pillar in the
 temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him
 the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new
 Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will
 write upon him] my new name. REV 3:21    TO HIM THAT OVERCOMETH will I
 grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set
 down with my Father in his throne. REV 21:7    He THAT OVERCOMETH shall
 inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


 REV 7:14    And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
 These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed
 their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 07:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    GOD TOLD ME           1/2

 TB> No, I want you to realize that the same allegations were made
 TB> against Jesus Christ.  He was also accused of twisting the laws of
 TB> Moses.

 SH>   Terry, what you seem to be doing is concentrating on is the
 SH>   ALLEGATIONS, rather than the TRUTH of the allegations.  Many
 SH> people   are accused daily (some in this conference) of twisting
 SH> and   distorting the scriptures.  By your logic, they too must
 SH> all be   messiahs, simply because they are accused of the same
 SH> thing that   Jesus was.

 No, that was not my conclusion nor my point.  My point is that people
 can be mistaken.  You can be just as mistaken in your analysis that Rev.
 Moon is not doing the will of God as the people were in their analysis
 that Jesus was doing the work of the devil.  I'm here to tell you that I
 know Rev. Moon and I can personally witness to you that he is a man of
 God. The rumors and accusations about him are unfounded.  His teachings
 do not violate any scripture, but just as in Jesus day, those teachings
 are thought to be in error based on the interpretations of men.

 SH>   When an accusation is made, there are but two situations -
 SH> either the   person IS twisting the scriptures, or they ARE NOT
 SH> twisting the   scriptures.  The allegations have nothing to do
 SH> with the actual   allegations, but rather the truth to the
 SH> allegation.

 Rev. Moon is not twisting scripture no more than Jesus did when Jesus
 taught that the beliefs of man were not in harmony with God's point of
 view.

 SH>   You keep expressing ideas that are contrary to the direct word
 SH> of   God.  We are not talking about interpretations here, we are
 SH> talking   about what God says.

 Yes, we are talking about interpretations.  Absolutely.  If you knew
 that God's point of view about the whole ordeal of religion and
 restoration was the attempt to restore the ideal family that was lost at
 the fall, you would have the correct frame of reference necessary to
 correctly interpret scripture. Until you know what God is trying to
 accomplish through His children, you can't see the validity in my
 interpretation of scripture.

 SH> TB> Well, that depends on the attitude you take.  If you want to
 SH> understand TB> my faith I can help.  But you will have to make
 SH> effort.

 SH>   Nice dodge.

 It is not a dodge to point out that I can help you understand my faith
 if you make effort.  I'm not sure you are trying to understand are you?

 SH> I'll ask it straight out (again) are you saying
 SH> that   Christ has already returned a second time, or that there
 SH> is more than   one messiah??  Scriptures to back up your
 SH> position would be   appreciated.

 First you should tell me why Jesus said this:

 MAT 16:20   Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man
 that he was Jesus the Christ.

 SH>   Then offer your proof.  As it is, you are making a claim, and
 SH> then   not offering one iota of evidence to back your claim up.

 The kind of proof you seem to want in not possible to give.  If I wanted
 proof that your religious views are correct, you could not do it.  If
 anyone had such ability there would be only one church.

 I can tell you one thing.  If you pray deeply and seriously enough, God
 may show you what He has shown me.

 SH> Your reply   here totally avoids the issue, and the crux of the
 SH> matter.  You made   the claim, and said that I should read
 SH> things concerning the early   church.  I have, and find that
 SH> your statement is in error.  Don't   be vague, don't dodge the
 SH> question.  Where is your proof of the   statement that the
 SH> message of salvation has changed over the last   2000 years??

 The message of salvation has not changed even though God has given NEW
 truth to man on several occasions throughout history.  The changing
 factor is man and his ability to understand deeper spiritual truth's.
 The time has come for man to grow up and mature.  That will be
 accompanied by NEW thinking:
 1CO 13:11   When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a
 child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away
 childish things.

 SH>   Why did people weep at His death??  Why did people preach that
 SH> he is   the Messiah, and fulfilled the prophecies that GOd said
 SH> that He would   fulfill??

 Why did people murder him?  Where was the love and support he needed
 when he was living?

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 08:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    GOD TOLD ME           1/2

 SH>   That is the difference between Moon and Christ.  Moon fulfils
 SH> nothing   but God's warning against false messiahs.  Christ
 SH> fulfilled all the   prophecies concerning his first coming, and
 SH> the salvation plan for   mankind.

 Since your mind is already made up and set in stone can you tell me why
 I should take the time to try to show you what God has taught me about
 Rev. Moon.

 SH>    Breaking through in prayer is not hard at all, Terry.  That
 SH> is a    misconception that you have.  God is there, waiting to
 SH> meet you    whenever you talk to Him.

 You make it sound as it is easy to pray.  Prayer can go much deeper that
 "Dear Lord, thank you for this food we are about to scuff down."   Have
 you ever noticed that key central figures in history prayed and fasted
 for 40 days.  Have you even prayed and fasted for 4 days?  40 hrs?  Have
 you ever prayed for 40 minutes?   You simply don't have a clear
 understanding of the distance between God and fallen man.  If we were as
 close to God as you indicate then it would be so simple and easy for
 people to be good and to obey God's commandments.  Obviously we are far
 from God and communication in prayer takes a great deal of effort.

 SH>    The accusation was made, but was the accusation true??  THAT
 SH> is the    important matter here, Terry.  Accusations are fine
 SH> and easy to    make.  Proof of the truth of these accusations is
 SH> another matter.

 So what is your proof that Rev. Moon is not the second coming of Christ?
 Do you know how the second coming of Elijah was realized?

 SH>   Wrong.  I have tried to understand your faith.  It is contrary
 SH> to   what God says, and therefore is not from God.

 This is exactly what the people thought about Jesus' teachings.  I tell
 you that you are making the same mistake they made.  They were expecting
 the Messiah to come and solve all their problems and when he came saying
 you have to serve others and love your enemies, they didn't want such a
 Messiah.  Are you looking for Christ to come and take you to heaven or
 do you think Christ will have the same message: sacrifice yourself for
 others?  I think that christianity is selfishly waiting for Christ to
 come back and give them a ride to heaven. I hope you turn out to be
 different.  I hope you answer and tell me you want to take the burden
 away from Christ and take responsibility for the world.

 There are 3 basic forms of religion:  First there is the children's
 religion.  Like a child, they come to God like they would their parent
 and ask for a candy bar or toy.  That is kinda cute but let's look at
 the next group:  The second group of religious people relate to God on a
 teenage level.  Rather than a candy bar, they want a car, an apartment,
 expensive clothes and other things that are a very heavy burden for
 their parents.   About 90% of the worlds religious population are in
 this category.   Finally there a few adult religious type people.  As
 adult they have the heart and attitude to take care of their parents and
 support them.  This kind of religion is the one Rev. Moon belongs to.
 This is the attitude he teaches us to take toward God and Christ. We
 must take a mature responsible attitude to support our parent God and
 take the burden from His shoulders.   The people who oppose Rev. Moon
 don't want to shoulder God's burden and sacrifice themselves for the
 sake of the world.

 SH>   This is somewhat ridiculous.

 Yes, the way of restoration is God's way and it almost always looks
 ridiculous to fallen man.

 SH>   I have expressed my counter views, and get no response except
 SH> things   like this.  You never answer direct questions.  You are
 SH> always vague   in responses, and pose hypothetical questions
 SH> that serve no purpose   in addressing the issue at hand.

 On the contrary, I simply don't give the answers you want to hear.

 SH>   You seem to feel that since I disagree with you, that means
 SH> that I am   not willing to discuss things with you.  The problem
 SH> is that when I   examine what you are putting forth, I find that
 SH> it is contrary to the   scriptures, contrary to God's words, and
 SH> contrary to the guidance of   the Holy Spirit.  THAT is realism.

 Your disagreement is no problem.  The problem is that you have not made
 an honest attempt to understand my faith.  You waste your time saying
 that everything I believe is contrary to scriptures and that Rev. Moon
 is "a false messiah who fulfills nothing."  If you took a class and told
 the teacher on the first day of school that they were ignorant about the
 subject and you knew it all, there would be no chance you would learn,
 NOR would you PASS the course!   You have failed Rev. Moons school of
 advanced religion already because your attitude only seeks to find
 fault.   If  you want to make a new start, just simply make an effort to
 see the Bible and the history of restoration from the frame of reference
 that God is trying to establish a situation where He can see grand
 children come into the world.   Then we can talk about what we must do
 in order to cooperate with God, and what God may or may not do in order
 to realize His ideal family on earth.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 08:16:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject     Holy Ghost is a femaemal

 ND>      Thank yu Terry, I now understand the Unification Church's ND>
 teachings about ND> the Holy Ghost... I may not agree, but  I still
 comprehend it.

 Thanks for your effort.  I got your package yesterday and I have read
 one of the pamphlets.   I have no doubt that Joseph Smith had a
 visitation at which time he was given a mission to restore the gospel.

 I would like for you to consider a thought.  When scientist study the
 creation, they see such an enormous gap between man and the apes that
 they consistently seek the "missing link."   It is a puzzling and
 difficult thing to see and understand such an abrupt and qualitative
 leap in the creation.  In the same way, the Christian faith and Judaism
 has an enormous gulf that separates the two religions and makes it most
 difficult for believers of the Old Testament to understand Jesus'
 teaching.   Likewise, when the second coming of Christ takes place the
 difference between his teachings and Christianity will be enormous.

 It seems that whenever God works, it is sometimes a great work.  I'm
 sure many traditional Christians simply can't understand that God called
 Joseph Smith and raised up the Mormon church for the purpose of
 preparing America and Christianity for the second coming of Christ.
 Just keep in mind that when Christ comes his message will take an open
 mind and deep prayer to comprehend.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 16:04:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Greg Hansen
Subject      Cultists

 GH> > This obviously is a very silly organization.  They didn't even
 GH> bother >to read the Bible and find out that new thinking
 GH> (thought reform) is >the result of following Christ.
 GH>
 GH>    Education, enlightenment, and discovery often lead to changes
 GH> in the way people think.  That is not the same as purposeful and
 GH> directed thought reform.
 GH>    The thought reform they're talking of is "love bombing",

 You can love bomb me any time.  In fact I like to be loved. You can call
 me at 3 am in the morning and just say I love you and hang up if you
 like.  I will still be happy when I wake up in the morning. Obviously
 anyone that does not know that God created mankind to respond to love
 does not know very much about the purpose of life.

 GH> isolating new members from family and friends, insisting on
 GH> absolute obediance to certain charismatic leaders (even before
 GH> family and religion).  Telling you what to think, instead of
 GH> giving you a chance to make your own decisions.

 That has nothing to do with me, my movement, nor my minister.  Just over
 a year ago we all were given the mission to go to our hometown and serve
 and teach.   As for absolute obedience, you may not know that no man can
 serve two masters.  Do you teach your converts that they should sorta,
 kind follow Christ?

 GH>    In short, brainwashing.  Cults use brainwashing techniques.

 No the media has the monopoly on this.  Look they already got to you.

 GH> Christ does not brainwash.  The Church of Scientology does.

 Your problem is that you don't know brainwashing from heart washing.  A
 person who has been washed in the blood has a new heart and they will
 behave differently.  I don't know anything about the church of
 scientology but if you are persecuting them then maybe I should check it
 out.  Scripture clearly teaches us that secular people like yourself
 clearly despise the work of the Lord.

 GH>    If you really want to argue it call them, not me, if you
 GH> think it's worth the long-distance phone bill.

 They are not the ones posting mindless nonsense on my hard drive.

 GH>    They'll probably be willing to mail you some information.
 GH> Really fascinating stuff.  Don't knock it 'till you've read it.

 No thanks, religious pornography has been around all through the ages.
 There is nothing I could read about my church that hasn't already been
 said in persecution of the Catholic Church, Mormons, Protestants or any
 other faith that has ever challenged people to be responsible to a
 supreme being.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 16:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    God

 WC>     You obviously do, Terry. You insist that the biological
 WC> function of the human race as two sexes requires God to be both
 WC> male and fe- male. That is a function of biology--the flesh.
 WC> Scripture clearly tell us that there is not difference
 WC> spiritually.

 Get real.  You mean to tell me that the angels really didn't fornicate
 as reported in the book of Jude?  You simply disagree with St. Paul not
 just me:

 ROM 1:20    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
 world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
 [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 WC>     This is why there will be no marriage in the resurrection,

 Why do you think our spiritual bodies would loose our sexual organs?

 WC>     And in every case where there is a pronoun used in
 WC> association with God it is masculine and not feminine. How do
 WC> you explain that?

 Masculine is the subjective side.  That is why your wife gets mail in
 your name.

 WC> Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither
 WC> bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all
 WC> one in Christ Jesus.

 Men and women become one in marriage but this does not bring on a
 condition of asexuality does it?

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 16:27:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject        How?

 ND> There was no concept of
 ND> original sin taught by Christ, these things were taught by men
 ND> many years later.

 How do you view John 8:40 ff ?

 ND> Because of Christ's traits of Godliness he grew up to live the
 ND> perfect life.

 You called it "traits of Godliness"  I call it sinlessness.  I think we
 are talking about the same thing.  And it appears obvious that we both
 agree that fallen people don't have it.

 ND> We, on the other hand, were not beget by God and we will
 ND> make mistakes: but that is how we learn!

 Well, I tend to disagree with that old maximum that says we learn from
 our mistakes.   Sometimes we do, but the far majority of what I have
 learned, I learned from doing something right.

 ND> This world, right now,
 ND> is not perfect. The animals fight each other, we fight each
 ND> other, death is very powerful right now. When Adam was first
 ND> created this was all different, there was no death in the world.
 ND> But when Adam disobeyed God (we both agree that he disobeyed
 ND> God, don't we?) death
 ND> was introduced into the world.

 Consider this...

 In Luke 9:60 we read that to the disciple who wanted to go home for his
 father's funeral, Jesus said, "'... Leave the dead to bury their own
 dead ...'".  In these words of Jesus we find two different concepts of
 life and death.  One concept is concerned with the physiological
 functioning of the physical body.  The other is concerned with the
 people who would gather for the burial of the disciple's father.  Why
 did Jesus indicate that those people who would attend the funeral were
 dead when they were actually alive?  It was because, being under Satan's
 dominion, they were ignorant of the purpose of life and did not know
 God, who is the source of life. Revelation 3:1 says, "'... you have the
 name of being alive and you are dead.'"  From this verse we can see that
 even though a person is physically alive, if he is under Satan's
 dominion, then from Jesus point of view he is dead.  With this view of
 death, life would then mean to be within God's dominion, fulfilling the
 God-given purpose of life.  In John 11:25, 26 Jesus said, "'... he who
 believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and
 believes in me shall never die.'"  This tells us that whoever is
 connected to God's dominion through Christ is alive, regardless of
 whether his physical body is dead or alive and regardless of whether he
 is on earth or in the spirit world.

                       The Death Caused by the Fall

 The need for resurrection is a result of the death caused by the Fall.
 Let us consider which of the two kinds of death mentioned above is the
 death resulting from the fall of the first human ancestors.  Man's
 physical body is destined to return to the earth after it becomes old
 and dies.  If God had intended human beings to live eternally on earth
 in their physical bodies, there would have been no need to create the
 spirit world for spirit selves to go to.  God created the spirit world
 before man fell; he did not create it after the Fall simply to provide a
 dwelling for the spirit selves of fallen people.  It was always God's
 plan that man's physical self return to earth and that his spirit self
 dwell eternally with God in the spirit world (Eccles 12:7).  Physical
 death is not the death caused by the Fall.

 When God told Adam and Eve that they would surely die on the day that
 they ate of the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Gen
 2:17), the death referred to was not physical death.  We see in Genesis
 that Adam and Eve continued to be active and alive and to have children
 for more than nine hundred years after they ate the Fruit of the Tree of
 the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Yet, if we are to believe God's Word,
 then in some sense they must have died the moment they broke God's
 commandment.

 God's love is the source of life.  Therefore leaving the realm of God's
 love is entering into Satan's realm, where there is no true love, is
 death.  In 1 John 3:14 we learn that "He who does not love abides in
 death".  Also, Roman's 8:6 and Romans 6:23 respectively tell us, "To set
 the mind on the flesh [to be carnally minded] is death, but to set the
 mind on the Spirit is life and peace," and "... the wages of sin is
 death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus ...".
 So from the Bible's viewpoint, the death which was caused by the Fall is
 the state resulting from sin -- the state of being separated from God's
 love.
 ND> God knew what would happen to Adam,
 ND> and this is part of His glorious plan!

 I don't agree that God planned the fall.  I know that the fall of man
 grieved God heavily.  I do not think a being that has the ability to
 create this world would do anything that He knew would bring Him sorrow.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 16:38:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus                 1/

 WC>     God has already given me an answer. How many times do you
 WC> want me to ask God the same question and get the same answer
 WC> from Him?

 You have to pray until you find the second coming of Christ.  That is
 the hope for your salvation isn't it?  I thought you were looking
 forward to that trip into outer space.

 WC>     Perhaps you can cite the verse which says that some people
 WC> would not die before the second coming?

 MAT 16:28    MAR 9:1    LUK 9:27

 WC>     It would be a lot easier if you would give a scriptural
 WC> reference here. That way we can all look it up for ourselves.

 I thought you had "The Book" memorized?  Matt 10:23

 WC>     I would hardly call one individual that agrees with me about
 WC> Rev Moon but indicated they did not understand why they would
 WC> cover their bodies an indication that you are biblically
 WC> correct.

 You would if you had been standing all alone on this issue as long as I
 have.  <Grin>

 WC> TB> but that alone does not save you.
 WC>
 WC> Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us
 WC> to- gether with Christ, (BY GRACE YE ARE SAVED;)
 WC>
 WC> Ephesians 2:8 For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED through faith; and that
 WC> not of yourselves: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD:

 You did not find the word "alone", "exclusively", or any other word with
 a similar meaning.  Grace alone will not save you.  Grace is not on
 man's side of the formula.  Grace is God's gift and if God's gift was
 all that was needed for salvation, then Hell would be eternally empty.
 Everyone would be saved automatically if grace was the only ingredient.
 Tell me you disagree with that, then tell me why you think Jesus would
 commission us to: MAT 28:19    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
 baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the
 Holy Ghost:

 WC>     They never had salvation so they could not loose it, Terry.
 WC> Salvation comes only to those who believe and respond to the
 WC> Gospel. That is the one which the Apostles preached. Anyone
 WC> preaching another gospel is accursed.

 Well you must be accursed because you continue to say that God's grace
 alone will save us, you, or someone.

 WC> WC>     Go ahead. Make our day. Cite Scripture which tells us
 WC> that WC> the passages you are referring to here are allegory and
 WC> not WC> literal.
 WC>
 WC> TB> And he dreamed yet another dream, ... (Genesis 37:9)
 WC>
 WC>     And the dream was fulfilled when the rest of the family came
 WC> to Egypt and bowed down before Joseph. You failed to tell how
 WC> this pas- sage supports our position.

 I though you could understand without my help.  What is the symbology of
 the sun, moon and stars in Joseph's dream?

 WC>     Verse 26. Then will come Israel's national salvation. We
 WC> should note that this verse speaks of national salvation and
 WC> restoration, not the salvation of every individual Jew.

 I find it rather curious that you would mention "national salvation"
 after all you and I have gone through on the subject of individual
 salvation.  You have always said that the only salvation that existed
 was individual salvation.... but now you start talking about national
 salvation.  Is it me or what?

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 16:59:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus & Family

 WC>     You cannot get any plainer than that. Zacharias was NOT the
 WC> high priest. He was not even among the chief priests. He was
 WC> only A priest among many who served his time in the temple
 WC> according to custom and the Law.

 Yeah, sure,  Zach was just a little man who was the father of the second
 coming of Elijah, the man John the Baptist who Jesus Christ himself said
 was the GREATEST born of woman.   Why did God choose such a little
 insignificant man to be the father of such a person?  I bet you NEVER
 answer that one with any kind of rational logical explanation.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 17:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiah

 WC>     No, Jesus is not dead and gone. And He is still healing
 WC> people today and that includes AIDS.

 So Jesus obviously doesn't need Rev. Moon to do the sort of things that
 you are look for him to do as proof that he is the second coming of
 Christ.  Maybe, and this is pure speculation, Jesus told Rev. Moon not
 to work any miracles.

 WC>     I did, Terry. They sinned by disobedience. That was the
 WC> sin--disobedience.

 If you were a lawyer could you ever expect to get a conviction by
 telling the jury that someone disobeyed?  You would either have to tell
 them what the accused did when they disobeyed, or drop the charges.

 WC> of good and evil. They did. That was the sin.

 What was the sin?  You mean they ate something?  Go on and say that if
 that is what you believe.  But I remember that you yourself admitted
 that the tree of life was a symbolical tree.  Now how do you expect a
 rational person to think that a literal tree grew beside a symbolic one?
 Furthermore, how do you expect anyone, even an irrational person, to
 accept the notion that a literal fruit grows on a symbolic tree.  You
 are so mixed up I don't think there is any hope for you to ever
 understand the fall of man.  All you would have to do to get this crazy
 notion out of your head is to simply believe Jesus:

 MAT 15:11   Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man

 Clearly Jesus taught that nothing eatable could cause the fall of man.
 I ask you the 100 th time.  What sin of disobedience did they do?  What
 action?


 WC> Sexual activity
 WC> does not bring with it knowledge of good and evil.

 As opposed to what?  Eating an apple?   Your argument would not even
 hold up to your own position.    You know that the Bible uses the work
 knowledge to indicate sexual awareness.  Look here:

 GEN 4:1     And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare
 Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. GEN 4:17    And Cain
 knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city,
 and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. GEN
 4:25     And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called

 WC> then even the beasts of the field would have knowledge of good
 WC> and evil. They do not.

 You obviously overlooked the fact that God did not give this commandment
 to any animals.  God gave the commandment to His children.  Do you know
 why?  Why do you tell your children to mature and marry before they
 experience sexual love?  Why don't you tell your dog the same thing?
 Obviously you dog is not going to give birth to your grand children.

 WC> Therefore, sexual activity was not the problem.

 Sex in itself is not the problem, the problem is misdirected sexual
 love. The Bible calls it lust. Misdirected sexual love caused the fall
 of man. In order to restore man, the Messiah must return and purify
 sexual love. In doing this he will be making all things new because God
 will have grand children.

 WC> TB> Your generation is the one that Jesus said would reject the
 WC> TB> second coming of christ and cause him to suffer many things.
 WC>
 WC>     Patently untrue and you know it.

 No.  I clearly know that your generation has opposed the will of God.
 Out of sheer ignorance you have not only failed to support the second
 coming of Christ but you have persecuted him, calling him the anti-
 christ and said he was communicating with demons. I have it all recorded
 and backed up for historical references.  You future generations will
 see what a terrible mistake you made.  Unless you change, and change
 fast, you will not be very popular when you arrive in the spiritual
 world.  They already know the time we are living in.  You better pray
 and pray harder and with more determination.  I would not be telling you
 this if it was not good for you to hear.


 WC> crucifixion. The prophecy cannot possible apply to the Second
 WC> Advent because no one knows when it will be.

 You don't have to know when the second advent will take place in order
 to know what may happen at that time.  I thought you told me Jesus was
 God?  How could he not know what would happen at the Second Advent
 unless Jesus was not God:

 MAR 13:32   But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the
             angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 Humm, maybe you are right... Jesus isn't God.

 WC>     In the case of the Messiah there will be on problem with
 WC> recogni- tion.

 1TH 5:17    Pray without ceasing.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 17:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    Moon Is A fake Christ

 RH> If you have trouble dealing with the fact that ever time God has
 RH> s shown that he bringing in something new He does it with
 RH> miracles He did it with Moses when bringing in the Law, He did
 RH> it with the Apostle to show what they were saying about the New
 RH> covenat was true. And He did with Christ to show that he was the
 RH> Christ.

 Even you would have to admit that the miracles you mentioned were wasted
 effort.  As soon as Moses delivered the people with miracles they truned
 to the golden calf.  All the miracles Jesus worked did not prevent him
 from being murdered by faithless people.  You also don't understand
 spiritual merit is not like an unlimited bank account.

 LUK 8:46    And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive
 that virtue is gone out of me.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 17:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Qualification

 WC> TB> Oh, you mean that same Holy Ghost that guided you to read my
 WC> mes- TB> sages and learn the truth about the second coming of
 WC> Christ.... TB> that Holy Ghost?
 WC>
 WC>     I mean the Holy Ghost of the Scripture. The Spirit of truth.
 WC>
 WC> John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he
 WC> will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of
 WC> himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak:
 WC> and he will shew you things to come.

 And that is exactly what I have done.  I have showed you of things to
 come. Why can't you understand that the Holy Spirit has guided you to
 know of the things to come?

 WC> Have you TB> even once met him or have you ever attended a
 WC> seminar or anything TB> that his followers sponsored.  How can
 WC> you even make a guess TB> about the love of Rev. Moon when you
 WC> have not made any attempt to TB> find out first hand?
 WC>
 WC>     It is easy, Terry. Jesus had power and authority. He had
 WC> love and compassion. He demonstrated all this by healing the

 Obviously no one would murder a person they thought loved them. They
 weren't killing their parents were they?  This love that you have
 experienced from Jesus clearly was not experienced by the people of his
 day.  How could that be?  It is the same today, while you have not
 experienced the love of Rev. Moon that I have.

 WC> afflicted and heal them. He does not. How about a hospital for
 WC> the poor. Has he financed one? Does he expend his re- sources to
 WC> feed the hungry? Has he made any provision for the home- less?

 Would you support him if you find out that the answer to these questions
 is YES?

 WC>     No, Terry. I John 3:17 is still in effect. It is still God's
 WC> Word. The Rev Moon is claiming to be a messiah.

 He hasn't.  It was me that made that claim. And even if Rev. Moon did
 make the claim, so what, Jesus did too.  I tell you that Rev. Moon is
 fulfilling the mission of the Second Advent of Christ ...just as John
 the Baptist fulfilled the mission of the second coming of Elijah.

 WC> Rev. Moon. Where are those who have
 WC> been healed of their afflictions?

 You have been talking to one for well over a year now.∙I wandered
 aimlessly, life filled with sin... I wouldn't let my dear savior in...

 PRAISE THE LORD!  I SAW THE LIGHT!

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 18:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    The Catching Away

 WC> I Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the
 WC> Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of
 WC> the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the
 WC> Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
 WC> voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead
 WC> in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and]
 WC> remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to
 WC> meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 The Last Days is the time of the fulfillment of the Purpose of the
 Creation.  Therefore the prophecy that believers will meet the Lord in
 the air in the Last Days cannot be a literal one, because the air is not
 the place where the Purpose of the Creation is to be fulfilled.

 In the Bible 'heaven' usually means the holy, exalted, and sinless realm
 which is under the sovereignty of good, while 'earth', its opposite,
 means the unholy, base, and sinful realm under the sovereignty of evil.
 for example, when we say, "'... Our Father who art in heaven ...'" (Mt
 6:9), we do not mean that God is located in the sky, but are referring
 to the holy and exalted realm of God's existence.  Thus to "meet the
 Lord in the air" does not mean the physical elevation of Christians to
 meet Christ in the sky, but rather refers to the development of their
 inner spiritual qualities and their serving Christ in the world of good
 sovereignty when he returns and establishes the Kingdom of Heaven on
 earth.

           Sun and Moon Darkened and the Stars Fall from Heaven

 Matthew 24:29 says, "'Immediately after the tribulation of those days
 the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the
 stars will fall from heaven ... .'"  Should these calamities come to
 pass, then the Purpose of the Creation could not be fulfilled. Then,
 what is the meaning of these predictions?  Genesis 37:9,10 gives us an
 insight.  There we find the interpretation of one of Joseph's dreams, in
 which the sun symbolizes the father, the moon symbolizes the mother, and
 the stars, their children.  Jesus and the Holy Spirit give rebirth to
 fallen man and thus stand in the position of father and mother (refer to
 "Christology").  Therefore, in the New Testament (Mt 24:29), the sun and
 the moon represent Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who are the source of the
 light of truth which illuminates the spirit and heart of mankind, and
 the stars represent the believers (Christians), who are the "children"
 of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

 WC>     Does your comment mean that the above words of God are a
 WC> lie.

 I don't know why you continue to use these kind of phrases like "words
 of God are a lie."  Don't you know this identifies you with dopy
 fundamental christians who resolve to this kind of language as a scare
 tactic because their ideas are too irrational to convince anyone their
 man made doctrines are void of truth?

 WC> TB> Your fictional belief, if implemented, would have serious
 WC> defi- TB> ciencies when two or more believers were found to have
 WC> shared the TB> same parts.
 WC>
 WC>     You are the one having trouble with the word of God.

 If this idea about resurrection as you have explained thus far is the
 word of God, then I definitely have trouble with it.  I simply haven't
 found God word to teach such fictional concepts the way you have
 explained them.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 18:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    WHAT MUST WE DO?

 SH>   you want to "teach" me about Moon.  Why should I accept
 SH> teachings   that donot line up with what God says, or fail to be
 SH> accurate on even   the most basic levels?

 Because your interpretation of scripture is incorrect.  Your frame of
 reverence does not account for the reality that God wants to be a grand
 father. If you could understand that point, you could probably figure
 out the fall of man, the mission of Jesus, and the mission of the Second
 Advent of Christ.  At least you could understand it when it is explained
 to you... even by a person as inadequate as myself.

 SH>   Yes I have.  Have you ever tried to read what God says about
 SH> false   prophets?

 Do you think you are going to scare me after I have had personal
 revelations from God myself?   You are wasting your time.

 SH>   I doubt that God calls people to sell peanuts and flowers on
 SH> the   corners.  But that is just an opinion for right now, and
 SH> not locking   God into some sort of inflexible box.  I acn't
 SH> find any scriptural   support for this, but that's okay.  BTW -
 SH> where does the money go??   (Besides buying houses for Moon, a
 SH> newspaper, and a college.)  Is   there a financial statement
 SH> available??

 Gee, I don't really know.  Do you know if your church (if you have a
 church) has a financial statement available for me?    I haven't been
 directly involved in the UC, except for brief visits for seminars in
 Poland and the CIS for the past 7 or 8 years.  Why are you worried about
 Rev. Moon's financial situation anyway?  Do you have any money you want
 to donate to support his ministry?  I'll see if I can find the address
 if you want to catch up on your tithing.

 SH>    I know what I read about the Unification Church.

 OH, you poor soul.  No wonder you are struggling.  Do you think the
 media is on the side of God or Satan?

 SH> I know what
 SH> type    of posts that you put here.  I know that from what you
 SH> espouse, that    the teaching is false.  I know that since you
 SH> hold to what Moon    teaches, HE is false.

 But you came here with that opinion and to use your own words, you are
 "locked into an inflexible box."  How could you possibly see anything
 other than what you want to believe?

 SH>    Hate to break this to you, but Jesus taught in the temple,

 Humm, I must have missed that sermon.  How could those people invite him
 into the temple?  They were the ones Jesus said were making people
 children of hell.  One normally can't get invitations when speaking like
 that.

 SH> which    would be the equilvalent of the church today.  There is
 SH> nothing    worng with a church,

 I hope you are joking.  The church is dead.  Or a better word may be
 impotent.  Look at what is happening in the world and tell me what the
 church is doing to save the world from all those people who are teaching
 that man is accountable to no one?   Christianity has not even been able
 to convince people that God exists.  How can we convince people that God
 exists?  We must show that God is living in us.  That is the only way I
 know.  Until people can experience the love of God coming through the
 body of Christ (christianity), how can they believe.  If they can't
 believe in God then they can never follow His commandments.  They can
 never have vision.  Christianity today has NO vision.  Clearly scripture
 teaches that without vision a people will perish.  Do you understand
 what is wrong with America?  NO vision.  Can you just open you mind and
 heart a tiny bit to try and see the vision Rev. Moon has brought to
 America and the world?  I know it is very difficult.  But some people
 have done it.  Some people like myself have seen the vision Rev. Moon
 has brought to this hopeless world.  I am really sorry that you have not
 been able to understand.  It is clearly my fault because I have not been
 able to convey my understanding to you.


 SH>    It is not the church that is really the issue, but rather the
 SH>    relationship that we, as individuals have with God.  You want
 SH> to    know where the greatest degree of God's love can be
 SH> found??  Try on    your knees.

 I cannot agree more.  That is exactly where I have experienced the
 greatest depth of God's heart.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Agreement

 PM>     It's my impression that God is waiting for the character of
 PM>     Jesus Christ to be developed in God's Remnant Group.
 PM>
 PM>     Then He will come and put an end to sin, as in:

 But God never sinned, how can God stops something He never did?  Man is
 the one who is sinning so man must stop.  Expecting God to stop you
 from sinning isn't mature behavior.  If God was responsible for sin then
 we would be saying God made me do it.

 PM> QUOTE    The great controversy is ended.
 PM>          Sin and sinners are no more.
 PM>         The entire universe is clean.

 This is beautiful poetry, but it totally disregards man's accountability
 therefore I won't be buying any today.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Christology

 PM>     QUESTION:  Are we ever told to seek Moon?

 Yes, right now.  The moment you read this messages you are here fore
 commanded to seek the Second Advent of Christ who is none other than
 Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

 Now you have been told.  You are without excuse.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject        GREETINGS

 ND> in foreign countries where the water is so bad that instead of
 ND> getting sick by drinking the water, the often use softdrinks
 ND> like Pepsi.

 Ha ha ha ha he he he... I guess you told him.   But I still wonder how
 you can equate drinking Pepsi with good health?  He probably will too.
 You better prepare for that comeback.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Messiah

 PM> TB> Eve to sin.  However, the serpent referred to there cannot
 PM> be a TB> serpent in the literal sense--it must be a symbol.
 PM> .
 PM>     Nope.  It was literal.                    Phil.phm

 You mean to tell me that you believe in snakes talking?  Not only did
 this snake talk, but he knew God's commandent AND he was able to seduce
 Eve to break that commandment.

 REV 12:9    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called
 the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out
 into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 REV 20:2    And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is
 the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Messiah

 PM> TB> sins.  Based on this view of Original Sin, we can understand
 PM> why the TB> Israelites had to be circumcised to be considered
 PM> God's chosen people. TB> It was required in order to make
 PM> restitution for the misuse of the TB> sexual parts, ...
 PM> .
 PM>     Why do I totally reject this view?

 Most likely it is because it spells out who your father is and you
 aren't comfortable with that:

 JOH 8:41    Ye do the deeds of your father. BUT PHIL said to Jesus, I'm
 not born of fornication; I have one Father, [even] God. JOH 8:42 Jesus
 said unto PHIL, If God were your Father, ye would love me:... Ye are of
 [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.  And
 Phill said: "Why do I totally reject your view?"   And Jesus said:
 JOH 8:43  ...because ye cannot hear my word.


 PM>     I am not a trained psychiatrist, but do I detect some
 PM> sin-guilt     in you, in the sexual area?

 So you want to liberate me so I can fornicate and commit adultery
 without any feeling of betrayal or accountability to God?  NO thanks, I
 once lived that way 1CO 13:11   When I was a child, I spake as a
 child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became
 a man, I put away childish things.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Messiah

 PM>     Has Jesus laid your supposed self-righteousness in the dust?
 PM> .
 PM>     Do you really love Him?                  phil.phm

 Yes I do.  Even more than people who never were persecuted or suffered
 like he was.  I truly know the hear of God and Jesus. I have experienced
 this suffering heart, thanks to Rev. Moon who knows it better than
 anyone who has ever lived.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:38:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   Thanks for making my point.  You hold that works are a part of
 SH> the   salvation process.

 To state my position correctly, I believe that man is accountable.
 I believe that includes the accountability for doing nothing which is
 called sin of OMISSION. Since we disagree then I can only suggest that
 you do nothing if you think that is the way to serve God and to attain
 salvation and I will follow the pattern of the saints and of Joshua

 JOS 24:15 ...but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   Then what is the purpose of a saviour??

                       The Purpose of the Messiah

 Each person is created as a child of God.  When he perfects himself and
 becomes an embodiment of goodness, he lives in the Kingdom of God on
 earth and in the spirit world.  God's purpose in making the Creation is
 to feel joy through experiencing his children living in the Kingdom of
 Heaven, which is the world of God's love and Heart.  It is established
 through and based on the fulfillment of the Three Blessings.  However,
 because of the Fall of the first ancestors, man became the embodiment of
 sin and evil, and ever since has lived in suffering both on earth and in
 the spirit world, and the Purpose of Creation has not been realized.
 Would God abandon his original Ideal for the Creation and leave it
 unrealized?  No, he would not.

 As God says in Isaiah 46:11, "'I have spoken, and I will bring it to
 pass; I have purposed and I will do it.'"  God will surely accomplish
 his purpose.  The God of love could not leave fallen man in such a
 state, for man was created as his child.  Instead, God has been working
 for man's salvation.

 Then what is salvation?  Salvation in restoration: to save a drowning
 person is to rescue him and restore him to the state he was in before he
 began to drown.  God's salvation of man means God's restoration of
 fallen and sinful man to his original state of goodness -- to the
 position where he can fulfill the Purpose of the Creation.

 Thus, God's purpose in salvation is to restore an individual to the
 sinless state that God originally created, raise him to be an ideal
 individual, establish an ideal family centered on the individual, and
 the establish an ideal society, nation, and world, based on that ideal
 family.

 If a person were to become such an ideal individual, namely a restored
 person who has realized the First Blessing, what would he be like? This
 perfect individual would have the same relation to God as the body of an
 individual has to his mind.  The mind dwells in the body, and the body
 acts as the mind directs it.  Similarly, a perfect person is a temple of
 God, and God dwells in his mind.  God becomes the center of his thoughts
 and actions -- the center of his life.  Such a person of perfected
 character achieves the ideal of unity with God, just as our body
 achieves harmony with our mind.  This is expressed in 1 Corinthians
 3:16, which says, "Do you not know that you are God's temple and that
 God's Spirit dwells in you?" and John 14:20 says, "'In that day you will
 know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.'"

 If Adam and Eve had become such perfect individuals, then in their life
 in the Garden of Eden would they ever have needed prayer, a religious
 life, or a savior?  Why would prayer have been necessary for those who
 were continuously living and communicating directly with God?  If a
 religious life is a life of faith in which fallen man desperately gropes
 in darkness in search of the God he lost, then why should a perfect
 person who lives his daily life as a temple of God have need of any form
 of worship?  Thus, if man had not fallen in the Garden of Eden, there
 would be no churches or Bibles, no sermons, no all-night prayer vigils,
 no revival meetings, nor the like.  All each person would need to do is
 live as the embodiment of goodness, attending God in his everyday life.
 Just as those who are not drowning have ne need of a rescuer, perfected
 people, who are sinless, have no need of a savior.

 Then if man had established the ideal family, fulfilling God's Second
 Blessing, what would such a family have become?  If Adam and Eve had
 become husband and wife embodying goodness, giving birth to children
 embodying goodness, this family would have become the origin of a
 sinless tribe, society, nation, and world.  With this family, the
 Kingdom of Heaven would have been established, and from that family and
 ideal society of one world family would have developed, with one set of
 true parents (the first man and woman) and endless generations of
 sinless descendants growing in prosperity.  God's dispensation for
 salvation is to develop such heavenly individuals, people who have
 realized God's Three Blessings and have thus established the Kingdom of
 Heaven.

 It is for this purpose of salvation that God sent his Son, Jesus Christ,
 as saviour to this world.  Thus the Messiah must stand before God as the
 origin of all ideal individuals and must establish the ideal family,
 which is the family that fulfills the purpose of the creation and is the
 place where God's love can dwell.  He must then also establish the ideal
 nation and world, thereby realizing the originally intended Kingdom of
 Heaven on earth, fulfilling the Purpose of the Creation.  This is the
 purpose for which the messiah comes.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   Then what is the purpose of a saviour??

                         The Crucifixion of Jesus

 God Truly loved his chosen people, the Israelites, who were to be the
 foundation for the coming of the Messiah.  Many times God prophesied the
 coming of the Messiah, and he even warned the people to remain alert and
 wait for him.  God even prepared a great witness, John the Baptist, to
 testify to the Messiah.  In fact, the nation of Israel was passionately
 longing for the Messiah to arrive.

 Tragically, however, the much-prepared chosen people failed to recognize
 the Messiah when he came.  The Son of God cried out that he was the Son
 of God, but his words fell on deaf ears.  He was never understood; he
 was branded a blasphemer and ultimately crucified. Ironically, the pagan
 rulers of that age knew of Jesus' innocence (Lk 23:14-16; Jn 18:38; Mt
 27:19,23; Mk 15:10-14), while those who judged him guilty where his own
 people and the leaders of Judaism, whom God himself had nurtured and
 prepared for so long.  They were even anxious to send Jesus to the
 cross.  Why?

 Christians have traditionally believed that Jesus' death on the cross
 was predestined as the original plan of God.  No it was not!  It was a
 grievous error to crucify Jesus Christ.  The crucifixion of Jesus was
 the consequence of the sheer ignorance of the people of Israel
 concerning God's dispensation.  God's will was clearly for the chosen
 people to accept and believe in Jesus (Jn 6:29, 10:37,38) and receive
 salvation.  The people of Israel did not understand who Jesus of
 Nazareth was, for even as he hung dying on the cross they mocked him,
 shouting that they would believe in him as savior only if he came down
 from the cross.  The Bible points out that "he came to his own home, and
 his own people received him not" (Jn 1:11); and the Apostle Paul
 testified that "none of the rulers of this age understood this; for if
 they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Cor 2:8).

 Christians today do not have a clear understanding of the truth behind
 the historic events that took place in Jesus' time.  If God's will for
 man's salvation could be accomplished only by the Crucifixion, why did
 he spend so much time preparing a chosen people?  Was it not because he
 did not want to hand his Son over to faithless people?

 In the garden at Gethsemane, Jesus prayed, "' ... My soul is very
 sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me ... My Father,
 if it be possible, let this cup pass from me ... '" (Mt 26:38, 39).
 Jesus uttered this prayer not once, but three times.  Many Christians,
 who believe that Jesus' mission was to bring salvation by dying on the
 cross, explain that Jesus uttered this prayer out of human weakness or
 frailty.  But could Jesus Christ, the savior of mankind, utter any
 prayer out of weakness?

 The first Christian martyr, Stephen, and many of the martyrs who
 followed, never prayed from such weakness.  Did they ever ask, "Let this
 cup pass from me," as they were dying?  How can we say that Jesus was
 weaker than these martyrs?  Especially if the purpose of his coming was
 to save all mankind by dying on the cross, could there be any reason
 that he would pray to escape from it?

 This prayer of Jesus was not a selfish or timid prayer, uttered out of
 fear of dying.  If the crucifixion had been the very way for Jesus to
 save mankind, he would gladly have died on the cross thousands of times
 over.  Jesus was beset with anxiety when he thought about his mission as
 the Messiah, which was to realize God's Purpose for the Creation on
 earth.  His heart was so troubled because he knew how sorrowful God
 would feel if the completion of the dispensation for salvation were
 delayed.  Jesus also foresaw the sufferings and bloodshed of his
 disciples and followers, the Christians, who would have to follow his
 path of suffering and the cross.  He also anguished over the troubled
 future that would come to the people of Israel if they rejected him.
 With all of this in mind, in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus uttered a
 last desperate prayer to God, repeatedly pleading that God let him
 remain on earth, even in those hopeless circumstances, so that he could
 continue his mission and change the hearts of the people to the point
 where they would accept him.

 If Jesus' death on the cross was predestined by God, then why did Jesus
 say to Judas Iscariot, his betrayer, "' ... woe to that man by whom the
 Son of man is betrayed!  It would have been better for that man if he
 had not been born'" (Mt 26:24); and how can we explain Jesus' crying out
 on the cross, "' ... My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?'" (Mt
 27:46).  If the crucifixion were truly God's original will for Jesus,
 then Jesus should have felt resounding joy on the cross, having
 successfully completed his mission.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   Then what is the purpose of a saviour??

           The Extent of Salvation Available through the Cross

 Death on the cross was not the mission that God had originally intended
 for Jesus, his Son.  Rather, it became God's painful secondary
 dispensation necessitated by the faithlessness of the people of Israel.
 What would have happened if all the people of Israel had believed in
 Jesus and had welcomed him, loved him, and united with him?  Most
 certainly, complete salvation would have been realized.  In other words,
 Jesus would have completely established the Kingdom of Heaven on earth,
 the place where the Purpose of the Creation has been realized.  God's
 world would have been realized -- the world in which all people believe
 in and follow the Son of God.  The people of Israel would have become
 the glorious core of heaven.  The Jewish and christian worlds would
 never have been divided, nor would the early christians have had to
 endure any of their terrible sufferings. Furthermore, because the
 Messiah would have completed his mission, there would be no reason for a
 Second Coming.

 Understanding the question of salvation in this light, we can see that
 Jesus' crucifixion was a secondary course of salvation and provided only
 spiritual salvation.  When the people came to the point of completely
 disbelieving Jesus and abandoning him, God had to pay the price for the
 sinful lack of faith of the Israelites and all mankind by giving the
 live of his only Son to Satan as a ransom.  As a result, Satan destroyed
 Jesus' physical body by nailing him to the cross, and Jesus' blood on
 the cross became the price for the redemption of mankind.

 By resurrecting the crucified Jesus, God opened up a way of spiritual
 salvation, a way to a realm free from satanic invasion.  God's victory
 was not the crucifixion, but Jesus' resurrection.  As a result of the
 crucifixion, the physical selves of mankind are still subject to satanic
 invasion, even though they were meant to be saved by man's believing in
 Jesus and being engrafted to him (Rom 11:17).  Only man's spirit can
 attain salvation, by the condition of participating in the resurrection
 through man's belief in the victorious Christ.  Our body still awaits
 redemption (Rom 8:23).

 Thus, even after Jesus' appearance on earth, the world continues to
 suffer under the power of Satan, and sin mercilessly persists in the
 bodies of people everywhere.  The Apostle Paul lamented, "Wretched man
 that I am!  Who will deliver me from this body of death? ... I of myself
 serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of
 sin" (Rom 7:24,25).  As a saint, Paul was devout and in full grace of
 the Lord, but his flesh continued to be oppressed by sin.  This
 confession is not limited to Paul alone, but applies to every person
 alive.  This is the reason that the Bible teaches us to "Pray
 constantly" (1 Thess 5:17) -- To protect us from satanic invasion.
 Also, 1 John 1:10 says, "If we say we have not sinned, we make him a
 liar ...," telling us that mankind is still under the bondage of
 original sin.  There is no one who has been cleansed of original sin.
 It is for this reason that the Messiah must appear again on earth, to
 liquidate our sins completely and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on
 earth, fulfilling God's Purpose for the Creation.

               Two Kinds of Prophecy Concerning the Messiah

 If Jesus' death on the cross was not essential for the fulfillment of
 his messianic purpose, then why did Isaiah 53 predict the Messiah's
 suffering and death?  Here we must remind ourselves that there are also
 verses in the Bible which prophesy that the Messiah will come as the Son
 of God and the King of kings and bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on
 earth.  These prophecies appear in Isaiah 9, 11, and 60, in other verses
 in the Old Testament, and in Luke 1:31-33.

 When God first created man, he created him to grow to perfection only by
 man's completing a share of responsibility.  Man can either accomplish
 his responsibility, as God wants him to do, or to the contrary, he can
 fail to accomplish it.  Accordingly, it was necessary that God give two
 kinds of prophecies regarding the fulfillment of His Will.

 It is God's responsibility to send the Messiah, but it is man's
 responsibility to believe in him.  Unfortunately, by not accepting
 Jesus, the Israelites failed to fulfill their responsibility; they did
 not fulfill God's primary prophecies for the Messiah's coming, which are
 in Isaiah 9, 11, and 60 and Luke 1:31-33, but to the contrary, carried
 out the alternative or secondary prophecy of the suffering Messiah, in
 Isaiah 53.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:47:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   Then what is the purpose of a saviour??

                          The Messiah and Elijah

 At this point, there is one matter which we must look into regarding
 God's dispensation of having Jesus go the way of the cross.  God had
 repeatedly prophesied to the chosen people about the coming of the
 Messiah, and the chosen people themselves longed for him and cherished
 the promise of his coming.  How could God send the Messiah in such a way
 that the chosen people were unable to recognize him?  Was it God's will
 that they not recognize and receive the Messiah?  Or did the people fail
 to recognize him despite God's clearly showing them how he was to come?

 In order to find the answers to these questions, let us first examine
 the second coming of Elijah.  In Malachi, the las book of prophecy in
 the Old Testament, it says, "'Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
 before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes ... '" (Mal 4:5,6).
 The "great and terrible day" that is referred to is the time when the
 Messiah comes, and thus this prophecy shows that before the Messiah
 comes, Elijah must first return.

 Elijah was a great prophet of Israel who lived nine hundred years before
 Jesus.  There is record of his having ascended into heaven on a chariot
 of fire (2 Kings 2:11).  The Israelites' longing for the Messiah was
 actually intensely focused on the arrival of the historical prophet,
 Elijah.  This was because the Old Testament did not clearly foretell
 when the Messiah would come, but did clearly indicate that Elijah would
 precede him.

 It was under these circumstances that Jesus appeared, proclaiming
 himself the Messiah.  He told the Jewish people that he was the Son of
 God -- this to the very people who thought that he was simply a young
 man from Nazareth.  they had not yet heard any news of Elijah's coming,
 so they asked, "How could Jesus of Nazareth be the Son of God?"

 Thus, when Jesus' disciples went out among the people of Israel,
 testifying to Jesus', the people doubted that Jesus was the Messiah and
 challenged the disciples by asking where Elijah was, since Elijah was to
 precede the Messiah.  So Jesus' disciples turned around and asked Jesus,
 "' ... then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?'" (Mt
 17:10).  Jesus replied, "' ... Elijah does come, and he is to restore
 all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did
 not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased ...'. Then the
 disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist"
 (Mt 17:10-13).

 Jesus understood the meaning of the scribes' important question and
 indicated that John the Baptist was the second coming of Elijah. Jesus'
 own disciples could easily believe this, but could the Israelites bring
 themselves to believe it?  John the Baptist did not come directly from
 heaven, and he himself even denied he was Elijah(Kn 1:21).  Jesus
 himself knew that the people would not easily accept it, saying,
 "' ... if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come'"
 (Mt 11:14).

 Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah who the people had been long
 awaiting, but since John himself denied it, whom would the people of
 Israel believe?  Naturally, it would depend on how these two men were
 viewed by the people of that time.

 First, how did Jesus appear to the Israelites of the time?  Jesus was an
 obscure young man raised in a humble carpenter's home and was not known
 to be experienced in spiritual disciplines.  Yet, Jesus proclaimed
 himself "lord of the sabbath" (Mt 12:8), was known as one who was
 abolishing the law (Mt 5:17), was the friend of tax collectors and
 sinners, and was known as a glutton and a drunkard (Mt 11:19).  He put
 himself on an equal footing with God (Jn 14:9-11) and told the people
 that they had to love him more than anyone else (Mt 10:37). Because of
 this, the Jewish leaders went so far as to claim that Jesus was working
 by the power of Beelzebub, the prince of demons (Mt 12:24).

 On the other hand, how did the Israelites of that time see John the
 Baptist?  He was the son of a prominent family, and the miracles
 surrounding his conception and birth were known throughout the country
 (Lk 1:5-66).  When he was older, he lived on locusts and honey in the
 wilderness, and thus in their eyes, he led an exemplary life as a man of
 faith.  In fact, John was held in such high regard that high priests, as
 well as the common people, even asked if he were the Messiah (Lk 3:15,
 Jn 1:20).

 Under these circumstances, the people of Israel tended to believe more
 in John the Baptist, who asserted he was not Elijah, than in Jesus, who
 told them that John the Baptist was Elijah.  The people decided that
 Jesus' view of John as Elijah was untrustworthy, thinking that Jesus
 said this only to make believable his claims about himself.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   Then what is the purpose of a saviour??

                     The Mission of John the Baptist

 Then why did Jesus say that John the Baptist was Elijah?  As Luke 1:17
 indicates, John the Baptist came with the mission of Elijah.  The people
 of Israel, who believed the words of the Old Testament literally,
 assumed that the original Elijah would actually come down from heaven.
 But God chose John and sent him with the mission of Elijah.

 John the Baptist himself declared that he was "sent before" the Messiah
 (Jn 3:28), to "make strait the way of the Lord" (Jn 1:23). Being a man
 with such a unique and important mission, John, by his own wisdom,
 should have known that he himself was Elijah.

 Many of the chief priests and the people of Israel who respected John
 the Baptist thought that he might even be the Messiah.  Therefore, if
 John had proclaimed that he was Elijah and had testified that Jesus was
 the Messiah, the Jewish people of that time would have been able to
 recognize and receive Jesus, thereby obtaining salvation.  Then Jesus'
 family background and seeming lack of experience in spiritual
 disciplines would not have mattered.  However, because of his ignorance
 of God's dispensation, John insisted that he was not Elijah. This was
 the main factor that prevented the people of Israel from coming to
 Jesus.

 In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said that he baptized with water, but
 that the one who came after him (the Messiah) would baptize with the
 Holy Spirit and with fire; he said that he was not even worthy to untie
 the thong of his sandal (Jn 1;27).  In John 1:33, John said, "'I myself
 did not know him; but he [God] who sent me to baptize with water said to
 me, "He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who
 baptizes with the Holy Spirit [Christ]."  And I have seen and have borne
 witness that this is the Son of God.'"  Thus God gave John the Baptist a
 direct revelation that Jesus was the Son of God.  Although John did
 initially fulfill his mission to testify to Jesus Christ, regretfully he
 did not testify to Jesus throughout his life.

 After meeting the Messiah, everyone should believe in him and serve him
 throughout their lives.  This was especially true for John the Baptist,
 who came with the mission of Elijah, which was to prepare the Messiah's
 way (Lk 1:76).  Therefore, John should have served and attended Jesus as
 one of his disciples.  John's father was told of his son's mission when
 he was born and he prophesied, saying, "... 'And you, child, will be
 called the prophet of the Most High, for you will go before the Lord to
 prepare his ways, to give knowledge of salvation to his people ...'" (Lk
 1:76,77).  However, we cannot find any instance in the Bible where John
 the Baptist actually served Jesus.

 Just before John the Baptist died in prison, having lived without
 fulfilling his mission to serve Jesus, he began to have doubts
 concerning his life and Jesus and sent his disciples to Jesus to ask,
 "... 'Are you he is to come, or shall we look for another?'" (Mt 11:3).
 This verse proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that John did not believe
 in Jesus and failed to serve him.

 Jesus was indignant at such a question and answered quite judgmentally,
 "'... blessed is he who takes no offense at me'" (Mt 11:6), indicating
 that despite Israel's great respect for John, John had already failed
 his mission.

 Jesus also said, "'... among those born of women there has risen no one
 greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of
 heaven is greater than he'" (Mt 11:11).  If one were the greatest born
 of women, surely he should be equally great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
 Then how could John the Baptist, who was born as the greatest in
 history, be less than the least in heaven?

 God sent John the Baptist as the greatest of prophets, for he was to
 serve the Messiah and testify to him before all the people.  But he was
 a dismal failure in fulfilling his responsibility.  Matthew 11:12 also
 explains this, saying, "'From the days of John the Baptist until now,
 the kingdom of heaven had suffered violence, and men of violence take it
 by force.'"  If John the Baptist had served Jesus well, fulfilling his
 responsibility, he would have become Jesus' chief disciple; but because
 he failed, Peter, who made the greatest effort among Jesus' disciples,
 became the leader of the Twelve.

 In order to prepare the people of Israel to have faith in Jesus, God
 gave many testimonies to John's parents, Zechariah and Elizabeth, who
 were representatives of the Judaism of that time.  God continually
 worked miracles so that the people would accept that he was directly
 working in the conception and birth of John the Baptist.  Undoubtedly,
 John was told by his parents about his being related to Jesus, and, as
 mentioned above, he must have received many revelations directly from
 God.

 Yet, despite all of this preparation, John the Baptist failed because of
 his disbelief and ignorance.  Moreover, his personal ignorance and
 disbelief led not only to his individual loss, but also to the disbelief
 of most of the people and ultimately to Jesus' crucifixion.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:49:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   But you are worried about it in that you keep saying that it
 SH> is not   sufficient for salvation. This is in error on two
 SH> points.

 So you can just do nothing if you think that grace *ALONE* will save
 you.  I personally have come to realize that man is accountable to God.
 AND this mean we are accountable for what we DON'T do. If you don't
 understand that then you don't understand the purpose of religion.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 21:53:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   My responsibility is to follow God's word, and His law.  That
 SH> is true   now because of the fact that His grace has saved me.
 SH> It has   justified me in His sight.  Because of that grace, and
 SH> ONLY because   of that grace, the things that I do now are
 SH> counted toward my   righteousness.  This is not a trade off of
 SH> some type as you are   advocating.  We are not to be saying
 SH> "Gee, God, if you give me grace,...

 Your problem is that you have totally forgotten that Satan has a claim
 on you.  You have the mistaken fallacy that you can simply stroll over
 to God's side and Satan won't miss you or even care that you have
 betrayed him.  You simply don't have even a vague notion of how
 difficult it is to separate from Satan.  If it were a simple matter of
 walking away from Satan then mankind would have stopped sinning on his
 own long before God sent Jesus Christ into he world.  We would not even
 need a Savior if we were not living under the bondage of sin and Satan.
 You totally forgot that the Messiah comes as man's liberator because we
 have become slaves to an alien being.

 JOH 8:44    Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your
 father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not
 in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie,
 he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. JOH 8:45
 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 22:02:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   1/2

 SH>   But we disagree on what the fall is.  The scriptures say it
 SH> was man's   disobedience to God.  You say that it is a sexual
 SH> sin.  Right off the   bat we have a problem in that you are not
 SH> believing what the   scriptures say.

 I do know what scripture says, and I believe it to be symbolical.  First
 I would request that before we go into this subject any deeper, you
 would research your Bible and tell me if you believe the Tree of Life is
 a literal tree or symbolic and explain your decision.

 SH> TB> Next, we need to understand the different kinds of indemnity
 SH> conditions.
 SH> TB> The first kind is the indemnity condition of an equal
 SH> amount, such as TB> that found in Exodus 21:23-25: ........
 SH>
 SH>   One the surface, this sounds quite nice.

 I have found that truth is quite rational and does sound better.

 SH> But the fact is that
 SH> here,   the two parties are considered to be equals.  This is
 SH> certainly not   the case with man and God.

 But a perfected man is equal in value to God. God cannot realize
 happiness and joy all by Himself.  It just about flips me out to hear
 people pushing God so far away that He can't be accepted into our lives.
 You missed the point when you did not pay close enough attention to
 page 1 of your users manual Gen 1:2 So God created man in his [own]
 image.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 22:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE   2/2

 SH>    holiness to begin with.  Secondly, there is no indication in
 SH> the    scriptures that man is fallen "in degrees" as this
 SH> suggests.  Man is    either in sin, or he is not.  This concept
 SH> of "indemnity" implies    that there are different levels of
 SH> mans' sin.  This is not so.  Man    is either sinful, or he is
 SH> not.  There can be no degrees.

 Well, I'll just settle this myth with a quote from Jesus Christ:

 MAT 23:15   Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye
 compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make
 him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 SH> talking about here.  God    says that He will provide the
 SH> sacrifice, and the means of salvation.    You are saying that
 SH> God's means isn't enough.

 Correct, it is my belief that man is accountable.

 SH> concept of   works.  The New Covenant is based upon God doing
 SH> the work, and man   receiving God's grace.  It is God's grace
 SH> and God's grace alone that   supplies man with his salvation.

 So what does man need to DO to get this grace?  <grin>

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 22:55:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE BE H

 SH>   Once more with feeling....
 SH>
 SH>   We are saved by God's grace and God's grace alone.  After
 SH> that, the   works that we do are counted toward our
 SH> righteousness.  We have   nothing to do with our salvation.

 So everyone must be saved... right?

 SH> TB> FYI, Rev. Moon teaches that there is no way for fallen man
 SH> to get back TB> to God without the Messiah.
 SH>
 SH>   But he does not teach, according to you, a follower, that
 SH> Christ   ALONE is the ONLY way to restore man's relationship
 SH> with God.   According to you, we must throw in some type of
 SH> works into the mix.   If that's the message, then it is
 SH> unscriptural, and therefore against   the word of God.

 Fallen man cannot save himself, but Christ can not save a person who
 dose not obey the law of restoration through indemnity.  Revelation says
 that those who wash their own robes will be permitted to eat from the
 tree of life.  It does not say that those who send out therir dirty
 laundry for Christ to wash for them will be permitted to eat from the
 tree of life. I believe Rev. Moon is absolutely correct in his teaching
 that man is accountable.  You still have the option to sit and wait but
 I can assure you that you will never know the heart of God through such
 irresponsible attitude and lack of action.  Even prayer takes effort and
 I think I remember you telling me that you pray.

 SH> TB> You must be joking.  If I were out to trick someone, why
 SH> would I be TB> wasting my time trying to teach such a wise man
 SH> as you?  You would like TB> me to think I have been caught
 SH> trying to sell drugs to an undercover TB> cop.  That concept is
 SH> simply nonsense.
 SH>   But people are caught doing it every day, Terry.  People try
 SH> and sell   their own idea of happiness and bliss to the people
 SH> that have the law   and the truth right in front of them.

 You just don't know that I'm really on your side.  I didn't spend 3
 hours tonight writing and typing messages to you because I want you to
 join me in Hell.  The spirit of God is working in my life and I
 personally feel God wants to let you in on a few of his secrets.  It is
 only yourself you are harming when you reject my messages without first
 spending some serious time in prayer.

 JOH 16:13   Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide
 you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he
 shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


 SH> the Lord that I know the   truth, because it sets me free from
 SH> the likes of people like Moon.   Your ideas, and Moon's ideas
 SH> and concepts of salvation, the   resotration of man, and the
 SH> glory of God simply don't line up with   what God says in His
 SH> word.  I believe God.

 So did the people who murdered His son.   Someday you will know the
 truth about Rev. Moon.  Believe me, I once had my own reservations.  I
 came from a Baptist background and I had heard all the ideas you hold to
 be the correct interpretation of God's word.  I suppose the main
 difference between us is that I truly, humbly and sincerely, with all my
 heart and determination, prayed to God and was answered.  So I suppose I
 will finally give in and admit that your concept that salvation comes
 from God is correct. Because it was God who changed my life and showed
 me how to live out His will through following and supporting Rev. Moon.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 23:19:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Sin

 PM> TB> The MOST miserable people in hell are those who betrayed
 PM> Christ.  Why TB> do you risk joining them?
 PM> .
 PM>     Since I have had 2 spiritual blessings in the last 4 hours,
 PM>     I am in no way impressed that I am mis-representing my
 PM> Saviour. .
 PM>     I have also had personal medical blessings recently, and
 PM> some     financial blessings.

 People who sell crack and pornography also get financial blessings.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 23:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bob Harris
Subject     Steve winters

 BH> As far as I know, there is no moderator of this echo at the
 BH> present time.  So, basically, it's every man for himself.

 Well, this is certainly one truth that I will agree with, except in the
 case of Carla who seems to be a woman. <grin>

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 23:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject     Steve Winters

 SH> CS>You can't sue somebody over something you can reply to on a
 SH> public BBS.

 SH>   This is not exactly true.  While Steve and I have the same
 SH> access to   this media, he does not have the right to make
 SH> statements that are   designed to attack my character, and in
 SH> doing so, hurt the business   in which I am engaged.  Although I
 SH> understand what you are saying, Mr   Winter's claims against my
 SH> person, my pastor, and my church resulted   in lost business.
 SH> (And yes, I can prove that claim.)  He does not   have the right
 SH> to make false, misleading, and misrepresentative   claims that
 SH> do damage to my business.

 Just make your check out to HSAUWC....

  SH> but    what God says that he is.  In the case of Moon, God's
  SH> word says that    he is not the Messiah, and therefore is a
  SH> fraud.

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Conference 14
Date       04-30-92 23:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    WHAT MUST WE DO?

 SH> TB> There was no such thing as the "blood of Christ" for several
 SH> thousand TB> years before Christ came into the world.  But we
 SH> have the Old Testament TB> that clearly taught fallen man a
 SH> process that he could follow to come TB> closer to God.
 SH>
 SH>    And that process involved the shedding of blood of a
 SH> spotless,    sacrificial animal for the remission of sins.

 Sometime.  But other times it was prayer, fasting and repentance.

 SH> was through the    blood of the animal that our sins were
 SH> forgiven.  It was God and God    alone that made the sacrifice
 SH> carry the weight and burden of our    sins.  How is that
 SH> different from Christ on the cross?

 Christ had the power on earth to forgive sins.  In fact he did just that
 and not with any rain check.

 SH>    Then stop reading them.  My shot at Moon had nothing to do
 SH> with    being cheap.  You have said that Moon is the Messiah,
 SH> and that you    follow his teachings.  You have also posted, at
 SH> great length, Moon's    philosophies and teachings.  When
 SH> examined in the light of the    scriptures, both Moon, his
 SH> teachings, and his claims (and therefore    what you hold to)
 SH> are non-scriptural.  They are not from God.

 But that is exactly the same accusation Steve Winter is making about
 your, your church, and your pastor that has you ready to take him to
 court and sue his pants off.

 SH>   Well, I hope that I fail by your standards.  You have a very
 SH> weak   concept of God, Terry.

 What appears to be weak concept to you is really a "personal
 relationship."

 SH> You also have a concept of
 SH> salvation and   grace that is unscriptural.

 Your concept denies man's accountability.  What can be more
 unscriptural than that?

 SH>    I have asked, and gotten the response that Moon is a liar.  I
 SH> have    the confirmation of the scriptures to back up this
 SH> communication    with God.  I'll stand with God on this issue.

 Yes, you and Stevie stand with God.  You are writing messages that
 reflect his style and content.  Are you becoming his student now?  Looks
 like you have just started copying his messages and inserting "Moon" in
 a few choice spots to make them look different.  But that still does not
 change the same disrespectful attitude you both love.  BTW, Even Steve

 SH>    You can stand with Moon after your death, but it won'tbe next
 SH> to God.

 You have no way of knowing this.  Your hate is overcoming you.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 06:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Rome
Subject     Holy Ghost is a femaemal

 RR> Terry in your view is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost one and
 RR> the same?

 Yes.  I have never noticed any difference between the Holy Spirit and
 the Holy Ghost.  I have never found an example of Holy Spirit and Holy
 Ghost being used in the same scripture as two different identities.
 However, Jesus and God are frequently compared in the same scripture
 with words that depict two beings... like "both", "greater than",
 "sent", "right hand", "mediator"   etc.


 RR> I'm trying to understand how you could actually
 RR> believe that the holy spirit is a female person.

 First, I don't believe the holy spirit is a female person.  Second, I do
 believe that the role of the holy spirit will be realized by a woman,
 just as I believe the role of Christ will be realized by a man.   Since
 birth implies parents, rebirth also connotes parents. It is through the
 spiritual parents, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, that I was reborn.  My
 rebirth, like my birth, was accomplished through parents. Parents must
 have a member in the role of father and a member in the role of mother.
 This seems to be in perfect harmony with Gen 1:27 where we find that
 God's image is both male and female.



 RR> In the greek language the word ghost is used
 RR> interchangeably
 RR> with the word spirit. So how does the verse in Gal 5:16 fit into
 RR> your understanding of the scriptures. I can't see how we are
 RR> supposed to walk in a females body and have that keep us from lust.

 I think the role of a mother is to raise her sons to respect women and
 not to view then as objects for sexual gratification.  If men did not
 look on women as "toys" for their pleasure then the relationships
 between men and women would at least have a chance to be pure.

 We cannot overlook the role that fallen women play in the problems that
 men have with lustful thinking either.  The seductive and manipulative
 behavioral methods that women are taught to practice in order to get
 their selfish desires satisfied are equally to blame.  Women should be
 aware of the effects their clothing and gestures have in stimulating men
 and save all these things for their husbands.  Every man that I know
 would love to have a wife like that.

 The reality is that we fallen men and women have never had a true father
 and a true mother to raise us up.  The only solution to restore human
 behavior is True Parents.  Christ and his bride must fill this role. Who
 else can?   There is no other place that the total complete love of God
 can dwell and be manifested.   When we fully understand this concept we
 can begin to realize why the second coming of Christ must take place
 like the second coming of Elijah.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 06:49:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Searcy
Subject     Humanity

 JS> The number that are being saved from the abortionist is growing. JS>
 Those who have read George Grants book on Planned Parenthood are JS> in
 for a shock.  It was set up to eliminate blacks, Puerto JS> Ricans and
 poor white trash.  Black and Puerto Ricans are now JS> reading about how
 planned parenthood is trying to eliminate them JS> and they are coming
 over to the side of Pro Life.

 I doubt you will understand the concept that I am about to try to convey
 to you, but here goes anyway....

 In the last days, the Second Advent of Christ will take place just as
 the second coming of Elijah took place.  Just as the birth of John the
 Baptist fulfilled the role of the second coming of Elijah, the mission
 of the Messiah will be fulfilled by the birth of Christ on earth.  The
 marriage of the Lamb will be a real wedding between Christ and a
 physical woman.  This marriage will be the establishment of true parents
 and result in the realization of the true family of God coming upon the
 earth.  In other words, first comes marriage and then comes Mrs. Messiah
 pushing a baby carriage. <grin>   Once the true family is established
 then an absolute standard will exist.  In other words, when the perfect
 comes the imperfect will pass away.  So in reality it is not only fallen
 Blacks and Hispanics that will start loosing their desire to procreate
 fallen children, but also EVERYONE who has not been adopted into the
 Messiah's family will simply start to loose their desire to procreate.
 Unfortunately the desire for fallen love (lust) is strong and many
 people will continue to fornicate.  The results of fornication is often
 pregnancy.  So what are Satan's children going to do?   We can see that
 they don't want to have Satan's children so they will seek to destroy
 them through abortions or any other means that are available.

 So, it is my conclusion that when the True Parents are established upon
 the earth, Satan will find it most difficult to continue to procreate.
 Since Satan can only procreate through fallen people the point in time
 will come when everyone who is not connected with God's one true family
 will loose all desire to become parents.  Satan will find it impossible
 to continue his dominion of false love through fallen parents.

 Even though you may not understand this concept that I have so feebly
 attempted to convey to you, there is simply nothing anyone can do about
 the abortion issue.  More and more methods of abortion will appear and
 the practice will be uncontrollable by governments and/or litigation.

 Everyone knows that morality can't be legislated but what most have not
 discovered is that abortion is a morality issue. The only solution to
 this problem is adoption.  Not the adoption of children of unwanted
 pregnancies, but the adoption of fallen man into God's one true family.
 Once fallen people discover the opportunity to be adopted into God's
 lineage and then receive the blessing of holy matrimony, they can see
 the way to procreate children who are in God's lineage rather than in
 Satan's lineage.  No one will want throw away such a child.  There will
 be no abortions in such a family.  In fact, couples who have been
 blessed with several children will even allow a couple who cannot have
 children, because of medical/biological problems, to adopt one of their
 children.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 07:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    WORKS

 RH> Terry, the Bible says that Christ is the only begotten Son of
 RH> God.

 Are you still reading yesterday's news?   Seems you are just now finding
 out that there is an new hat in the ring?

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 08:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Barefield
Subject    WORKS

 MB> Come on Terry, Jesus had the prophesies and His miracles as His
 MB> witnesses.  What "proof" can Moon show?

 Just little old me.  I was such a sinner that it took two messiah's to
 save me.  Rev.  Moon and Jesus Christ.   Well let  me make that 3
 because Mrs. Moon is also in on this.  Can't be reborn without Ture
 Mother can we?

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 13:16:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Conclusion

 WC>     World unification is an interesting subject, Terry.
 WC> Scripture teach that such a unification will happen. It will be
 WC> headed by the Antichrist.

 This is talking about what Christ will do:

 MAT 24:31   And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a
 trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
 from one end of heaven to the other.

 MAR 13:27   And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together
 his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to
 the uttermost part of heaven.

 WC> He will destroy anyone what has the
 WC> audacity to speak a word against him. He sets himself us as God

 That certainly leaves out my minister.

 WC> (Messiah). However, I do not believer in the slightest that the
 WC> Rev. Moon is the Antichrist.

 Good.  Now why don't you help me out when those wayward should enter
 messages claiming that Rev. Moon is the anti-christ?

 WC> This individual will arise from the
 WC> among the nations which made up the old Roman Empire.

 FYI  The anti-christ was the communist ideology. It denied the existence
 of God and put man in the position to be accountable to no one. The
 messiah already defeated the anti-christ.  Communism has fallen.  You
 are getting way behind in understanding the times you are living in.
 Already the anti-christ has come and gone and the rapture has taken
 place and now Christ is ruling while the rest of the world is falling
 apart.  Even the spiritually blind are starting to realize the fallen
 world in doomed.

 WC> The only
 WC> part which the East play in the end time is to form a
 WC> 200,000,000 man army and march to Jerusalem in order to destroy

 You can forget about Jerusalem...

 MAT 21:43   Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken
 from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. MAT
 21:45   And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
 they perceived that he spake of them.

 If God used Israel again it would be like recalling Adam to restore man.
 When a person or nation is chosen by God and they fail they loose their
 blessing and position.  Read Jesus words again and see if you can
 understand what he said.

 WC> TB> There is simply no way I could tell you of things that are
 WC> going TB> to happen both here in America and around the world.
 WC>
 WC>     I agree with you on this one, Terry. And it is all setting
 WC> up the political climate so that the Antichrist can step in and
 WC> take over.

 In the first place the Antichrist does not take over, people willing
 followed when the communist ideology was offered to them.  People aren't
 really victims of Satan as much as they are willing partners.

 WC>     It was prophesied by God that this would happen and
 WC> therefore it will happen. Therefore, the Divine Principle will
 WC> avail nothing in that day.

 What can I say?  At least the Holy Spirit has led you to to understand
 much of the Divine Principle even if you can't accept it as truth.  What
 more can Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit do for you?

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 13:33:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Grace

 WC> TB>  You would do yourself a service to go back and read what I
 WC> said. TB> Grace alone cannot save you... Your biblical quote
 WC> does not TB> disagree with that.
 WC>
 WC>     The Scripture directly contradicts your doctrine again,
 WC> Terry.
 WC> Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us
 WC> to- gether with Christ, (BY GRACE YE ARE SAVED;)
 WC>
 WC> Ephesians 2:8 For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that
 WC> not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

 You continue have problems finding any scripture that says that grace
 alone will save you.  You can't because Grace ALONE can't save anyone.
 You must be accountable to God no matter how much grace abounds.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 16:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bob Vonmoss @ 970/1
Subject    Faith Comes by hearing th

 BV> One person has no faith in the word of God in the Bible.  One
 BV> person accepts the Bible, but another man's words as of higher
 BV> authority,

 Nothing wrong with that when the other man is the second coming of
 Christ.

 BW> which contradicts what the Bible says.

 Jesus Christ was believed to have contradicted the Bible in his day. It
 seems the tree of false doctrines Jesus chopped down has sprouted again.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 16:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gerard Trigo
Subject    God & Satan

 MB> More words would be wasted. I suggest you consider the gravity
 MB> of words, and the consequences of lies.

 Ever notice how misdirected people who call themselves christians like
 to use the word "lies"?  Especially when they are rationally cornered.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 16:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Scott Lynch
Subject     Holy Ghost is a femaemal

 SL> I do not know who started this thing about the Holy Ghost being
 SL> female but the whole idea is almost blasphemous. How carnal, how
 SL> blind, the spiritual world is not given to gender as we know it.

 I really can't figure out what it is that upsets you about this concept
 of the Holy Spirit, which scripture calls the comforter, fulfilling the
 role of the feminine aspect of God.  I can only conclude you never
 though very deeply about the role of the Holy Spirit before.   It seems
 all to rational that since we are born from parents, our rebirth must
 come through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  Do you think Jesus is filling
 the role of our spiritual father or our spiritual mother?   Which ever
 choice you make, you have the Holy Spirit left with the other position.


 SL> Everything that is spiritual cannot
 SL> and should not be put on the same level as our limited fleshy
 SL> world. The Holy
 SL> Spirit, the Holy Ghost , the Spirit, the spirit of God; these
 SL> all connotate the same person - God's Spirit. If we are to call
 SL> God's Spirit female then we are also calling the Father that
 SL> also.  My God have mercy on us!

 For what?  Believing Gen 1:28?

 SL> That we would become so self
 SL> righteous in our sight and be so wise in our own eyes that we
 SL> would begin to label Spiritual with physical. We must try the
 SL> spirits to see wether they are of truth or error and the very
 SL> proposition of such is definitely of the wrong spirit.

 It seems very very strange to me that you would consider it self-
 righteous to consider these matters when at the same time you don't have
 any problem with "trying the spirits to see what they are."  The very
 fact that you will be "testing" them is an act of labeling them ...isn't
 it?

 SL> we know that the Holy Ghost is our counselor and helper  and "he"
 SL> shall teaches in all things, and "he " shall glorify and lift up
 SL> Jesus Christ not himself. There is ONE way to the Father, to be
 SL> Born Again that is thru Jesus Christ he is the one way.

 How can you be reborn without a spiritual mother?  Were you born
 without a mother?   I don't know.  You may be one of those test tube
 babies.

 SL> no such thing as a dual participation of deity in our salvation.
 SL> Such teaching is not sound doctrine and is of spiritual error.

 Have you never heard of the great commission:  MAT 28:19    Go ye
 therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
 Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 SL> Those of Satan's
 SL> kingdom , those who practice witchcraft and rebellion they often
 SL> label demons
 SL> and spirits as male or female- which is only to gratify the
 SL> limited senses of the human since it is impossible for spirits
 SL> to have or acquire purely fleshly characteristics save
 SL> possession of said body.

 There is obviously a whole lot of the Bible you haven't been exposed to.
 It was not people of Satan's kingdom who practice witchcraft that
 exposed the angels who fornicated with men in Sodom and Gomorrah.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 16:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bob Vonmoss @ 970/1
Subject     To be Bl(o)unt

 BV> That statement was a general statement, but they do happen to go
 BV> hand in hand.  I'd say that anyone who is willfully maligning
 BV> the word of God is in some way serving Satan's purpose.

 MAT 7:2     For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 16:41:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Barefield
Subject    WORKS

 MB> In all fairness Terry, how about something a bit more
 MB> substantial.

 HEB 11:1    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence
 of things not seen.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 21:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject      Holy Ghost is a femfema

 ND>      Terry, you say that there was a large gap between the
 ND> religion of the Jews and the religion of Jesus Christ (the
 ND> messiah). I tend to differ with you.

 This gap still exists.  I know many people of the Jewish faith and they
 are just a far from understanding Christianity as Christianity is from
 understanding the Divine Principle.

 ND> What happened to the Jews
 ND> was similiat to what happened to the early Christian church:
 ND> both became over come with the doctrine of men.

 To use your words, "I tend to differ with you."  Here is why:

 LUK 19:44   And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children
 within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another;
 because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 ND> The Jews
 ND> themselves killed off their own prophets, nevertheless they
 ND> remained the promise
 ND> people and the chosen nation for the appearence of the Christ.

 To use your words again, "I tend to differ with you."  Here is why:

 MAT 21:43   Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken
 from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 MAT 21:45   And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his
 parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

 ND> The gospel of Jesus Christ is an eternal gospel, I believe it
 ND> was taught to Moses when Jehovah appeared to him in the burning
 ND> bush and that Enoch also knew, as well as many others.

 Truth is eternal, but the expression of truth changes as man matures.
 We tell our teenage children to refrain from sexual activity, but that
 does not mean that we never want them to marry and give us
 grandchildren.  Moses brought the age of the Law. Jesus brought the age
 of Love.  The Second Advent of Christ will bring in the age of the
 heart.

 ND> There have been many eras (or dispensations) when Christ has delive
 ND> his divine message, but people usually end up turning away. The
 ND> dispensation to Joseph Smith was to be the last dispensation.

 Perhaps the last before the dispensation of Christ himself.

 ND> Joseph Smith was also told to start a restored church with the
 ND> true gospel of Jesus Christ. And God communicates
 ND> with man through prophets. At one time God said that he would
 ND> not do anything
 ND> unless he toldl a prophet. Anyhow, Joseph Smith was told what
 ND> signs were to happen before Christs second coming, many of these
 ND> things we can see happening right now,

 Perhaps the Messiah is on earth at this time.

 ND> but they are by no means finished. Also we are givin
 ND> certain "keys"
 ND> of discernment to know when Christ does come. He will surprise
 ND> us, but when he does show up we will be told by God. He will
 ND> come with many saints from heaven. If you would like to know of
 ND> the signs of Christ's second coming, just ask...

 Well, I have actually seen these signs and I have met the second coming
 of Christ.  Mine eyes HAVE seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.

 The only reason that other people can't see the glory of the coming of
 the Lord, as I have, is because they suffer from the results of
 interpreting the scripture literally.

 ROM 7:6     But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead
 wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not
 [in] the oldness of the letter.

 NE1 16:29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was
 plain to be read, which did give us understanding concerning the ways of
 the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according
 to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that
 by small means the Lord can bring about great things.
 NE1 20:7 They are created now, and not from the beginning, even before
 the day when thou heardest them not they were declared unto thee, lest
 thou shouldst say- -Behold I knew them.

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Conference 14
Date       05-01-92 22:16:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject      Holy Ghost is a femfema

 ND>      Terry, you say that there was a large gap between the
 ND> religion of the Jews and the religion of Jesus Christ (the
 ND> messiah).   I tend to differ with you.

 Not only is there a great gap between Judaism and Christianity, but
 there is also a great gap between Christianity and Mormonism.  For
 example, in the past 2 1/2 years I have been explaining the Divine
 Principle in this Open Bible conference I have been severely persecuted
 by fundamental christians (who called themselves "orthodox")  for
 teaching something I had learned from Rev. Moon.  Tonight as I was
 reading the book of Mormon I was surprised to discover that the book of
 Mormon teaches this exact same point that has caused christians to
 strongly reject Rev. Moon's teaching and persecute me:

 D&C 131:1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
 D&C 131:2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this
 order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of
 marriage];
 D&C 131:3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 07:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    Messiah

 SH>   This thinking really falls apart unless you are willing to say
 SH> that   Adam also had sex with the serpent.  Is that your
 SH> position also??

 Adam did not have a sexual relationship with Lucifer.  I don't think you
 will find any reference to Lucifer giving Adam any fruit.  I really feel
 sorry for you. You continually display so much hate and resentment in
 your heart. It's going to destroy you if you don't find a way to free
 your heart and begin to love others.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 07:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    Sin

 TB> The MOST miserable people in hell are those who betrayed Christ.
 TB>  Why do you risk joining them?

 SH>   I think that you need to answer this yourself, Terry.  You are
 SH> the one   forsaking Christ for Moon, not Phil.

 It is clear to me that you would have accused Jesus followers for
 forsaking Moses.

 SH> You are the one
 SH> who is saying   that the first sin was sexual, even though the
 SH> Bible clearly states   otherwise.

 You did not listen to me with an open heart.  You did not pray. So you
 continue to help Satan conceal his crime.  The fall of man was clearly
 an act of illicit sexual love.  There is no other reason the sinners
 involved would have hidden their nakedness.  The story in Gen. contains
 many symbols that can easily understood by anyone who has a prayerful
 heart and humble mind.  There is no such thing as talking snakes, trees
 with fire in front of them or fruit that causes one's descendants to be
 born with sin.

 SH> YOu are the one advocating a
 SH> salvation plan that is   inclusive of a variety of works,

 Yes, I firmly believe that I am accountable to God and my accountability
 has an influence upon my salvation.   You can teach that man is not
 accountable if you like, but that is the same message that is taught by
 people who say God does not exist.  And that is the same message Satan
 taught Eve:  GEN 3:4     And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall
 not surely die:

 SH> despite the fact that it is against   scriptures.  You are the
 SH> one advocating a false messiah.

 No, you are possessed by the same spirit that MURDERED Jesus Christ and
 jeered at him while he hang dieing on the cross.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 07:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Maglak
Subject    Spirits On Trail

 MM>     It is time we identify and expose these superstitious myths.

 If you think that the spiritual world is a superstitious myth, you will
 be in for a big surprise when you get there.
                           The Spiritual World
 It is very important for our life of faith that we correctly understand
 the issues concerning life after death and man's spirit self.  Let us
 examine these questions: Does man have a spirit self? If so, what does
 it look like?  What is the spirit world like?  What is the relationship
 of the spirit world to the physical world?  What principles govern the
 spirit world?

 Much information is being collected these days in relation to the spirit
 world.  However, it does not seem possible to explain systematically or
 to understand clearly these apparently complex phenomena.  As a result,
 the important questions mentioned above have confused and even dismayed
 many people, and this has affected their religious lives.  Some logical
 explanation is necessary for the many descriptions of a spirit world
 that appear in the Bible, such as the three stages of the spirit world
 mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:2, the appearance of Moses and Elijah with
 Jesus on the mount of the Transfiguration, and the many examples
 concerning heaven that are recorded in the Book of Revelation.

 The Creation is not composed of only the Visible Substantial World,
 which may be compared with the human body; it also consists of the
 Invisible Substantial World, which may be compared with the human mind.
 We can understand the relationship between these two worlds by
 considering the relationship between mind and body.  Our physical body
 is limited by time; it cannot transcend the present moment.  Our
 physical body is limited by time; it cannot transcend the present
 moment.  Our physical body is a being of the moment; it eventually
 becomes old and returns to the soil.  Our mind is not limited by time;
 no barrier of time can stop it.  It can freely reflect on the past and
 long for the future, if it wishes to do so; it is eternal.

 The physical body is also limited by space.  It occupies a specific
 place at each moment and cannot be in another place at the same time.
 The mind, however, is not limited by space.  The mind does not leave any
 visible traces in the world of space and can exist in any place, if it
 desires to.  The mind is so limitless that it can embrace the universe,
 if it expands its dimensions.

 So, man consists of a body, which is limited and transitory, and a mind
 which is limitless and eternal.  The sphere of action for the limited,
 transitory body is the Visible Substantial World, and the sphere of
 action for the limitless, eternal mind is the Invisible Substantial
 World.  Just as man's mind is subject and motivator of the body, the
 Invisible Substantial World is subject and motivator of the Visible
 Substantial World (Heb 8:5).

 The what is man's relationship to these two worlds?  In Genesis 2:7, it
 says, "...the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground..." which
 means that God created man's physical self with the basic elements of
 the Visible Substantial World.  That God "...breathed into his nostrils
 the breath of life" (Gen 2:7) means that he fashion man's spirit out of
 the basic elements of the spirit world to form what in The Principle is
 called the spirit self.

 The position of man in the cosmos is as follows.  First of all God
 planned man as the microcosm of the cosmos.  God created the cosmos
 first, but he created it based on the pattern of the Internal Chatacter
 and the External Form of the ideal human being, whom he planned to
 create later. Man's spirit self is an encapsulation of the Invisible
 Substantial World, and his physical body is an encapsulation of the
 Visible Substantial World.  God mad man as the microcosm of both the
 Invisible and the Visible Substantial Worlds.  So man is called a
 microcosm.

 Secondly, God created man to be the ruler of both realms of the cosmos
 (Gen 1:28, 1 Cor 6:3).  To put it another way, God created man's
 physical self from the elements that make up the physical world and gave
 man dominion over the physical world through his five physical senses.
 Similarly, God created the spirit self from the elements that make up
 the spirit world and gave man dominion over the spirit world through his
 five spiritual senses.  Man was originally created with two sets of five
 senses, one for the physical self and the other for the spirit self.  As
 a result of the Fall, man's five spiritual senses became dulled and man
 became unable to perceive the spirit world, which can be perceived only
 by the spirit mind and spirit body.  Those whose spiritual senses have
 been restored by God's grace and a religious life can experience this
 world, either partially or completely (the Book of Revelation, 2 Cor
 12:2, the Transfiguration (Mt 17:2)).

 Thirdly, God created man to be the medium of interaction and the center
 for the harmony of the Creation.  The spirit world and physical world
 cannot communicate directly with each other.  When man's physical self
 and spirit self become one through Give and Take Action, the physical
 world and the spirit world can communicate with one another through man.

 From what has been said above, we can summarize man's position in the
 Creation as follow: man is the microcosm of the spirit world and the
 physical world; he was created to be the ruler of these two worlds; and
 he is the center for the harmony of these two worlds.  However because
 of man's Fall, the Creation lost its ruler and center of harmony, Thus,
 ...the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons
 of God;...because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage
 to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.  We
 know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until
 now.... (Rom 8:19-23)

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 07:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Maglak
Subject    Spirits on Trail

 MM> IMAGINATION- THE FEAR OF MYTHS AND THE UNKNOWN!  So, the
 MM> original source is man's imagination, which was then
 MM> systematized into a religion.

 What do you think happens to people when they die?

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 15:15:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ken Wiens
Subject    Christology           2/

 KW> mourn, and they will see the Son of Man Coming on the clouds of
 KW> the sky with power and great glory."
 KW>
 KW> Now, the last time I checked the above is not what Sun Myung
 KW> Moon has done. He is certainly not the Messiah.

 FYI he landed in the USA in a 747 that did ascend from the clouds.  He
 certainly IS the Messiah.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 15:16:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Johnson
Subject     GOD & SATAN

 GJ>   Welllllll...If it would make YOU feel BETTER, I could
 GJ> persecute you for a while, how would that be??? <Grin!>

 It would be nice for me but are you sure you have extra blessings you
 want to forfeit? <grin>    It is my understanding that persecution
 transfers "heavenly fortune" from the persecutor to the persecuted.

 MAT 5:10    Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness'
 sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 15:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject       Qualification

 PM>     Somehow I do not feel you post comes from Jesus.

 Humm, I did have a software problem a while back and some messages went
 out as "from sysop," but I never had any idea that Jesus' name has ever
 appeared in the "from" column of the messages I've been sending. Praise
 the Lord, it's a miracle !  Jesus is signing my messages!

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 15:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO TO   1/2

 SH> TB> So how many of these great leaders did you count on the
 SH> cross with TB> Christ?   I came up with 0.
 SH>
 SH>   Terry, if you are going to make assertions like this, and then
 SH> not   realize the fallacy behind what you are saying, then we
 SH> have nothing   to talk about at all.  You made a blanket
 SH> statement that all Jewish   leaders turned their backs upon
 SH> Christ.  This is not correct.  It is   not historically correct,
 SH> it is not Biblically correct.  Your   response indicates that
 SH> you are going to stick with the position, no   matter what is
 SH> put in front of you.

 So you came up with "0" too?  You still didn't tell me how many of the
 nobel leaders went to the cross with Jesus.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 15:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO TO   1/2

 TB> LUK 18:8  I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
 when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

 SH>   This verse does nothing to support what you are saying.  It is
 SH> just   another smoke screen.

  "SH> Your response indicates that you are going to stick with the
   SH> position, no   matter what is put in front of you."

 SH> TB> SH> There will be NO DOUBT that
 SH> TB> SH> Christ has    come a Second time.  Christ gave us the
 SH> signs of TB> SH> his return in order    that we may EXAMINE
 SH> those signs, and look TB> SH> for his return.  (Always
 SH> prepared - always looking.)
 SH> TB> MAR 8:12    And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith,
 SH> Why doth this
 SH> TB>             generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto
 SH> you, There TB>             shall no sign be given unto this
 SH> generation.
 SH>   Okay, are we of the generation to whom Christ was speaking??

 Absolutely !  Emphatically YES !

 SH> TB> LUK 17:20   And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
 SH> the kingdom TB>             of God should come, he answered them
 SH> and said, The kingdom TB>             of God cometh not with
 SH> observation:
 SH>   Does your Bible end that chapter with verse 20??  Skip down a
 SH> bit and   see vs 24.
 SH>
 SH>        "For as the lightening that flashes out of one part under
 SH> heaven        shines to the other part of heaven, so also the
 SH> Son of Man will        be in His day."

 Sounds like television to me.   Have you ever seen Rev. Moon on tv?

 SH>   There will be no doubt Terry.
 SH>
 SH>            Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in
 SH> heaven, and        all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and
 SH> they will see the        Son of Man coming on the clouds of
 SH> heaven with great power        and glory.

 You simply forgot that Daniel prophesied this same thing about the
 first coming and many people who were spiritually sensitive were led to
 Jesus. Even John the Baptist saw the Holy Spirit ascend on Jesus and
 John hear the voice of God saying "this is My son..."   In addition to
 me, there are millions of people have had similar revelations from God
 about Rev. Moon.  Just because your spiritual senses are malfunctioning
 like a broken tv set, it does not change the fact that Christ has
 returned.  You can repair your broken receptor if you will start praying
 humbly.  Until your attitude changes God is simply going to leave you in
 the darkness.

 SH>    Now, do you really think that the Second Coming is not going
 SH> to be known to all??

 Eventually everyone will know.  But do you really want to get in on this
 at the tail end? Why don't you continue to just relax and let me have
 your blessing.  Thank you.  My lineage will use your blessings wisely.

 SH>   However, it seems that Moon believe that only the members of
 SH> his   "denomination" have the understanding of Jesus, and His
 SH> message.   Otherwise he would not have said:
 SH>
 SH>        "We are the only people who truly understand the heart of
 SH> Jesus, and the hope of Jesus."

 He is correct.  If you knew the heart of God you would be helping us.

 SH>   Also, Moon teaches that not only can one be equal with Jesus,
 SH> but   also excel Him.  Clearly contrary to the scriptures, but
 SH> that doesn't   seem to bother you, or Moon.

 I suppose it may have something to do with the fact that we have read
 the Bible and believed Jesus:

 JOH 14:12   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the
 works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall
 he do; because I go unto my Father.

 SH>   Moon may teach one or two things that I hold, but he is also
 SH> teaching   a doctrine of destruction that cannot be reconciled
 SH> with God's word.

 Rev. Moon has never taught destruction. He has been persecuted more
 than any human in history and yet he has never retaliated. He has spent
 millions of very hard earned dollars to save America.  He is in great
 debt as a result of helping the people in the communist world who were
 his former enemies.  I only wish you knew the Rev. Moon that I know.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 15:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO TO   1/2

 SH>   So who did God work "through" when He created the world??  Who
 SH> did   God "work through" when God decided to send His son??  You
 SH> seem to   think that God is limited to only working through
 SH> people.  That is   not the case.

 God's ideal cannot be realized without man fulfilling our portion of
 responsibility.  We are accountable.

 SH>   I can see why you would feel this way.  After all, what is the
 SH> Bible   except God's word to individuals and groups??  You must
 SH> be denying   God's word.

 Surely you see the problem that has resulted from this road to
 individual salvation?  There are well over 400 denominations of
 Christianity and many are at war with each other.  This "memo" concept
 that you seem to favor simply isn't working.

 1CO 12:25   That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the
 members should have the same care one for another.


 SH> Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee
 SH> from Your presence?

 You can go with the rest of your friends:

 REV 6:15    And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich
 men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and
 every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the
 mountains; REV 6:16    And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us,
 and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from
 the wrath of the Lamb:
 SH>

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 15:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO TO   2/2

 SH>   So now you are saying that the Bible, God's word, lies??

 No, that kind of terminology is a scare tactic that is commonly used by
 fundamental christians when their belief's fail to convince rational
 thinking people that God is an irrational creator.

 " SH> Well, that   makes sense. "

 Yes it does. We agree.

 SH> You feel that the Bible lies, and
 SH> that Christ lies.  At   least you are consistant.  Consistantly
 SH> wrong, but consistant   nonetheless.

 Why is your faith so weak that you have to make accusations like this?
 You are not making any effort to understand me or to love me.

 SH> TB> You have less than 5 or 10 years remaining to support him
 SH> TB> while he is on earth.
 SH>
 SH>   If Christ returns in this time, or takes me home to be with
 SH> Him, this   statement is accurate.  Otherwise, it is not.

 MAT 7:22    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
 prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
 name done many wonderful works? MAT 7:23     And then will I profess
 unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 SH>   I have sought God's guidance both in prayer and in the
 SH> scriptures.   Moon is a fake.  He does not believe in the
 SH> Scriptures, and if you   follow him, you do not either.

 You are correct if you mean to imply that neither Rev. Moon nor myself
 agree with your interpretation of scriptures.  Is everyone who disagrees
 with your interpretation a fake?  I don't call you a fake because your
 spiritual level is immature.

 SH> That is what God is saying.  Now the   question becomes "Why are
 SH> YOU not listening to God?"

 I suppose it may be obvious when you think about it; I simply don't find
 God in your interpretations of Scripture.  Actually you have shared
 little of your interpretations with me. You general only make effort to
 criticise me and my minister.  That seems to be the only thing you are
 good at.  Just look at the next thing you have to say to me:

 SH>   Then why try and teach them about Moon??  He is not the truth.

 See?  You are not even trying to teach me anything positive about your
 beliefs.  I do hope your beliefs extend beyond looking for fault in
 everyone you meet.  Just remember that cynics have no heros.

 SH> However, I think that your implication is not
 SH> that Christianity makes mistakes, rather that GOD makes
 SH> mistakes.

 I'm not really concerned about finding mistakes. I'm a kind of guy who
 is mainly looking for solutions.   I want to fix things.  You can sing
 sad songs and lament about who is at fault but unless you are part of
 the solution, you ARE a part of the problem.  There is only one person I
 can work on and that is myself. Spend a little time working on yourself
 and you will discover where the enemy really is hiding.

 SH>   If you call holding to the scriptures being narrow, hard
 SH> headed, and   irrational, than I hope that I am these things.
 SH> God calls us to test   everything against His word.  Moon, and
 SH> his doctrines fail the test.

 That doesn't surprise me. Jesus' teachings failed man's interpretations
 too.

 SH>   Terry, the "love" that you feel that God has is but a shadow,
 SH> shallow   imitation of the real thing.  Too bad, too.  But then
 SH> again, since   you accept a shallow, false messiah, then you
 SH> probably willing to   accept the shallow, imitative love also.

 Where do you/how do you experience the deepest love of God?

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 18:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Barefield
Subject    Sin

 MB> TB> No, you are possessed by the same spirit that MURDERED Jesus
 MB> Chr TB> jeered at him while he hang dieing on the cross.
 MB>
 MB> Jesus was not murdered!!!!

 ACS 7:52    Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and
 they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One;
 of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

 1CO 2:8     Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they
 known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 Crucifixion is murder.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 22:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject         How?

 ND>       Terry, although I agree that there are two kinds of death
 ND> often talked of in the Bible, to me it is very clear which is which.
 ND> In the garden of Eden,
 ND> "You shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye
 ND> die." To me this is very clearly speaking of physical death.

 GEN 2:17    But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou
 shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt
 surely die.                     ^^^
 If you notice my emphasis you can probably see my viewpoint.  Obviously
 Adam and/or Eve did not physically die the day the ate.  Adam lived to
 be 936 years old.  The did become aware of knowledge of good and evil at
 that time just as the next verse points out:

 GEN 3:5     For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your
 eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
                            then immediately:
 GEN 3:7     And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that
 they [were] naked;

 So to recap, two things were to happen the *DAY* they ate the fruit:
 1. death  2. knowledge of good and evil     ...we know they did gain
 knowledge because we read they immediately realized they were naked.
 But they did not physically die because they were cast from the garden
 and went on to have children.

 For me personally, there is a much more logical reasons for believing
 that all humans were created to live a while on earth and then die.

 First, we all seem to agree that God gave man an eternal spirit before
 the fall took place.  Now why would God give man an eternal spirit if He
 intended for man to live forever in the flesh.

 Second, we haven't any record of animals sinning but since they, like
 man and all other living morphological beings go through a cycle of
 birth, growth, maturity then die.  If sin is the cause of our physical
 death then other similar beings that live in bodies much like our own
 should not age and die.

 Third, if resurrection means to return to life in a physical body of
 flesh, then we have to wonder where are people like Jesus, Moses,
 Elijah and the multitude of people who were resurrected from their
 graves after Jesus' crucifixion. It seems clear to me that resurrection
 is a spiritual healing or return to the realm of God's eternal direct
 dominion of love, not to be confused with any physical phenomena.

 ND> God also knew
 ND> that Adam, or anyone else for that matter, placed on the Earth
 ND> (exept for Jesus Christ, his firstborn would sin.

 I have a lot of trouble with this concept.  I clearly believe that God
 knew the possibility that His children could sin, but as for God
 harboring the worst gloom and doom kind of expectation of His children,
 that is difficult for me.  Even fallen parents don't expect their
 children to grow up to become criminals, how can our heavenly father
 have lesser faith in us?  If God did not have great hope and expectation
 that His children would fulfill His highest dreams, then we would not
 read of His deep sadness after the fall:

 GEN 6:6     And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth,
 and it grieved him at his heart.

 ND> "Moses" it explains alot of it. In Moses, Adam was givin two
 ND> commandments: Don't eat from the fruit, and Be fruitful and
 ND> multiply. Eve was tempted by Satan and ate of the fruit. Eve's
 ND> body began to decay and get old. Adam knew
 ND> that he could not multiply in his immortal form forever with Eve
 ND> because she
 ND> was going to eventually die, so he ate the fruit. Adam was put
 ND> in quite a tough choice. He had to break one commandment to keep
 ND> the other. God knew that that would happen but still, Adam had
 ND> his free will as well as Eve.

 Although I don't agree with this view, I have to praise you for
 telling your viewpoint.  In most of the messages I have received in this
 conference, the person(s) who disagree with me seldom say much of
 anything about what they believe.  They may state the general christian
 Bible track kind of comment from time to time, but as for actually
 trying to teach their viewpoint, it seldom happens.  Having said that I
 must mention that Walter Copes and a few others that have come and gone
 have made effort to teach their faith.

 Those comments were not intended to side track the issues you presented.
 As you may know, the Divine Principle takes the position that Adam was
 given 3 blessings and 1 commandment, rather than two commandments.  In
 other words 3 do's and 1 don't.    Of the three do's, one of them was to
 multiply, which would have eventually included the experience of
 conjugal love.  However, this is the VERY MOST important teaching of
 the Divine Principle... FIRST,  got that? FIRST, before experiencing
 sexual love and procreating, Adam and Eve were told to obey the
 commandment and NOT taste or touch the fruit.   Since fruit is the
 reproductive part of a plant, it is symbolical for reproduction.  Since
 a plant does not bear fruit before it matures, it means that to become
 fruitful one must mature.  God first told Adam and Eve to mature, just
 as we teach our children that they should be mature and marry before
 they take on the responsibility that comes with the experience of
 conjugal love. The fall of man therefore distorted the proper order of
 love.  Misguided, misdirected love, centered on Lucifer was the
 motivation behind the birth of the first generation of the human race.

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Conference 14
Date       05-02-92 23:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject         How?

 ND>  Also, the part of D.P. that
 ND> you posted said that the spirit world was created before people
 ND> came to Earth and die. Wouldn't it make sense , then, to believe
 ND> that our spirits exist before we come to Earth. Can't you see,

 I see your point, but the earth was created before God place Adam and
 Eve on it.  Since the earth was created before it was inhabited,
 couldn't the spiritual world have been created and then existed without
 habitation also?  It is my belief that God gave a very precious gift to
 His children.  He gave them the power and ability to unite and create
 another eternal spiritual being.  When couples procreate children, they
 are simultaneously creating an physical being and a spiritual being that
 will exist eternally.  ...the spiritual one that is.

 ND> Terry, the meaning of life? God is OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN. we ARE
 ND> HIS CHILDREN.
 ND> He loves us and wants us to be like him and to be able to live
 ND> with Him forever in the same Eternal Glory that he is in.

 I agree. But I would ask you if we are like God then should we be able
 to create a new spirit when we create a child?  ..just as He did?

 ND> Let me know what you think about the above concepts...

 Oh, I will. It is a pleasure to talk to someone who doesn't have a macro
 key set up to press on every other line to enter a nasty attack on my
 minister.

 ND> PS I am soooo filled with the Spirit righth now, it is
 ND> incredible. Terry, I am actually crying. (as you once said)

 I realize you have a deep relationship with God.  I want to testify to
 something I know is real.  We are living in the last days and the spirit
 of God is moving like never before, and the spirits of righteous, God
 loving people, who once walked this earth and prayed to see this day,
 are working with you, guiding you and supporting you. You will continue
 to have even deeper experiences.